BBO Discussion Forums: Best auction? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Best auction?

#1 User is offline   SelfGovern 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 94
  • Joined: 2011-July-24
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, Texas area
  • Interests:Bridge (huh?), Toastmasters, Data Storage, photography

Posted 2015-April-16, 23:07

You're playing a 2/1 system and dealt -, K2, K5xx, AKQJ8xx [edit: To clarify, shape is 0247 with a void in spades]

The auction proceeds (no one vul):
1C - (1S) - Dbl - (3S)
??

(opps are BBO bots, fwiw)

Q1: What is your second call when you've not discussed this auction?

Q2: What system do you play in a regular partnership that might make your second call easier?

Edit: Thanks all for your considered responses. Those who responded to some other hand or auction, maybe not so much <grin>, other than to reinforce that communication at the bridge table (and away from it) is quite difficult.
But I have taken away that this hand truly has a challenging rebid on this auction. Makes me wish I'd opened a Schenken 2!D.
[end edit]
Liberty breeds responsibility
0

#2 User is offline   mike777 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,739
  • Joined: 2003-October-07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2015-April-17, 00:04

6 clubs
0

#3 User is offline   WesleyC 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 878
  • Joined: 2009-June-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 2015-April-17, 00:26

1. I'd bid 4S, planning to pass 5C.

2. Over 4S, 4NT would be a last train style slam try.
2

#4 User is offline   mr1303 

  • Admirer of Walter the Walrus
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,558
  • Joined: 2003-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
  • Interests:Bridge, surfing, water skiing, cricket, golf. Generally being outside really.

Posted 2015-April-17, 04:56

I bid 5C

I very much doubt partner has an ace, and even if he does, given he couldn't move over 1S, that almost certainly isn't enough for 6C.
0

#5 User is offline   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,068
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UK

Posted 2015-April-17, 05:55

Mark: p doubled 1S
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
0

#6 User is offline   lycier 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,612
  • Joined: 2009-September-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:China

Posted 2015-April-17, 09:06

I am willing to bid 5 to ask the quality of trump .
0

#7 User is offline   lycier 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,612
  • Joined: 2009-September-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:China

Posted 2015-April-17, 18:18

View PostSelfGovern, on 2015-April-16, 23:07, said:

Q2: What system do you play in a regular partnership that might make your second call easier?


Of course,it is 2/1.
0

#8 User is offline   SelfGovern 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 94
  • Joined: 2011-July-24
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, Texas area
  • Interests:Bridge (huh?), Toastmasters, Data Storage, photography

Posted 2015-April-17, 21:57

View Postlycier, on 2015-April-17, 09:06, said:

I am willing to bid 5 to ask the quality of trump .

I'm confused -- you're willing to commit your side to the 5- or 6-level on a 6-card trump suit?
Do you really have much success with this?

Also, in standard methods when opps have bid one suit and we have not cuebid their suit, doesn't a jump to five of our major ask P for 1st or 2nd-round control in their suit? How does that help when I am already void in their suit?

In response to your answer to Q2, yes, we are playing 2/1, but you didn't give me an answer to help me understand how 2/1 makes this hand easier than Acol or SAYC.

I welcome your further thoughts and clarification.
Liberty breeds responsibility
0

#9 User is offline   SelfGovern 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 94
  • Joined: 2011-July-24
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, Texas area
  • Interests:Bridge (huh?), Toastmasters, Data Storage, photography

Posted 2015-April-17, 22:00

View PostWesleyC, on 2015-April-17, 00:26, said:

1. I'd bid 4S, planning to pass 5C.

2. Over 4S, 4NT would be a last train style slam try.


OK, what is 4!S?
Is there any implication of heart support?
What if, say, your red suits were reversed and you held -, Kxxx, Kx, AKQJ8xx? Would you bid something besides 4!S, or bid differently after the 4!S call?
Liberty breeds responsibility
0

#10 User is offline   lycier 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,612
  • Joined: 2009-September-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:China

Posted 2015-April-18, 02:58

View PostSelfGovern, on 2015-April-17, 21:57, said:

I'm confused -- you're willing to commit your side to the 5- or 6-level on a 6-card trump suit?
Do you really have much success with this?

Also, in standard methods when opps have bid one suit and we have not cuebid their suit, doesn't a jump to five of our major ask P for 1st or 2nd-round control in their suit? How does that help when I am already void in their suit?

In response to your answer to Q2, yes, we are playing 2/1, but you didn't give me an answer to help me understand how 2/1 makes this hand easier than Acol or SAYC.

I welcome your further thoughts and clarification.

This hand is a big hand.
Pd's double is negative,and should promise 4-card another major.
It is allowed to lose one trick in the side suit ,but it is key to the problem on whether or not there is one loser in trump .And it is no use cuebidding others side suits.
Now,how to describe this hand?
In 2/1,willingness to raise to 5 level is to ask pd's quality of - if holding two top cards in it,can bid to 6,it also implies it is no use for partner to have no amount of hcp in the side suits.
0

#11 User is offline   jodepp 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 122
  • Joined: 2015-March-13

Posted 2015-April-18, 06:20

I think any cuebid is premature and will probably only wind up confusing partner about what suit is agreed.

4 for me. It implies extras, four diamonds and longer clubs which IMO looks much like what I'm holding. At least partner now has more information.
0

#12 User is offline   Jinksy 

  • Experimental biddicist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,907
  • Joined: 2010-January-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2015-April-18, 06:33

4 is horrible. We have no interest in playing this hand in anything other than clubs.
The "4 is a transfer to 4" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
0

#13 User is offline   mike777 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,739
  • Joined: 2003-October-07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2015-April-18, 10:41

give pard as little as:

xxx...Axxx...Qxxxx...x
xxx...Qxxx...Axxxx...x

and we have chances in 6c, I expect pard to have more.

even this has chances:

xxx...xxxx...Axxxx...x
0

#14 User is offline   jodepp 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 122
  • Joined: 2015-March-13

Posted 2015-April-18, 11:28

View PostJinksy, on 2015-April-18, 06:33, said:

4 is horrible. We have no interest in playing this hand in anything other than clubs.

I too think I'm aiming at clubs, but the utility in 4 is in suggesting shape and extras, not necessarily suggesting diamonds. I can't see a cheaper non-cuebid that gets that message across.

Since when did bidding out one's pattern become gauche?
0

#15 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Göttingen, Germany
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2015-April-18, 11:36

View Postlycier, on 2015-April-18, 02:58, said:

This hand is a big hand.
Pd's double is negative,and should promise 4-card another major.
It is allowed to lose one trick in the side suit ,but it is key to the problem on whether or not there is one loser in trump .And it is no use cuebidding others side suits.
Now,how to describe this hand?
In 2/1,willingness to raise to 5 level is to ask pd's quality of - if holding two top cards in it,can bid to 6,it also implies it is no use for partner to have no amount of hcp in the side suits.

This hand is big but it only has two hearts, which was his point. Reread the opening post.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#16 User is offline   SelfGovern 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 94
  • Joined: 2011-July-24
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, Texas area
  • Interests:Bridge (huh?), Toastmasters, Data Storage, photography

Posted 2015-April-18, 13:25

View Postlycier, on 2015-April-18, 02:58, said:

This hand is a big hand.
Pd's double is negative,and should promise 4-card another major.
It is allowed to lose one trick in the side suit ,but it is key to the problem on whether or not there is one loser in trump .And it is no use cuebidding others side suits.
Now,how to describe this hand?
In 2/1,willingness to raise to 5 level is to ask pd's quality of - if holding two top cards in it,can bid to 6,it also implies it is no use for partner to have no amount of hcp in the side suits.

Sure, partner promised at least four hearts for his negative double. So partner should bid 6!H with AQxx, and we'll be playing a 4-2 fit with Kx opposite AQxx?
Do you have much luck with that -- or even 5-2 trump fits -- in real life?

Or perhaps you just didn't see the dash -- your hand is 0-2-4-7 shape. Does this change your answer?
Liberty breeds responsibility
0

#17 User is offline   SelfGovern 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 94
  • Joined: 2011-July-24
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, Texas area
  • Interests:Bridge (huh?), Toastmasters, Data Storage, photography

Posted 2015-April-18, 13:30

View Postjodepp, on 2015-April-18, 06:20, said:

I think any cuebid is premature and will probably only wind up confusing partner about what suit is agreed.

4 for me. It implies extras, four diamonds and longer clubs which IMO looks much like what I'm holding. At least partner now has more information.


I had not given much consideration to a 4!D call, for fear P might think I had something like Jxx, x, AJxx, AKxxx. What would you do with that hand over 3!S? If you would pass, what is the weakest hand you'd find a 4!D call on?

I'm trying to figure out if 1) 4!D shows a hand *this* big (i.e., an ace and a QJ away from 6!C),
and,
2) if 4!D is forcing (or will P consider it forcing? Will P be able to act intelligently with something like Qx, Axxx, QJxx, xx, where we want to be in 6!C? Or Qxx, QJxx, QJxx, xx, where 5!C seems great, and 5D pretty darned good? Evaluate partner's rebid over 4!D with both the hand in my original post, and the Jxx, x, AJxx, AKxxx above.)
Liberty breeds responsibility
0

#18 User is offline   jodepp 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 122
  • Joined: 2015-March-13

Posted 2015-April-18, 15:47

View PostSelfGovern, on 2015-April-18, 13:30, said:

I had not given much consideration to a 4!D call, for fear P might think I had something like Jxx, x, AJxx, AKxxx. What would you do with that hand over 3!S? If you would pass, what is the weakest hand you'd find a 4!D call on?

I'm trying to figure out if 1) 4!D shows a hand *this* big (i.e., an ace and a QJ away from 6!C),
and,
2) if 4!D is forcing (or will P consider it forcing? Will P be able to act intelligently with something like Qx, Axxx, QJxx, xx, where we want to be in 6!C? Or Qxx, QJxx, QJxx, xx, where 5!C seems great, and 5D pretty darned good? Evaluate partner's rebid over 4!D with both the hand in my original post, and the Jxx, x, AJxx, AKxxx above.)

I would think 4D has to show the bigger hand - I don't think one would introduce a new suit at the four level unless one had extras. If I had the weaker hand you suggested, I might make a competitive double (if I was sure that was how it would be interpreted) or just Pass.
0

#19 User is offline   cherdano 

  • 5555
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,516
  • Joined: 2003-September-04
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2015-April-18, 17:06

You certainly cannot bid 4D with a x=y=4=5 hand - if you want to bid with such a hand, you double. I would take it as showing 5=6 in the minors.

I would just bid 5 - we have a lot of losers, and partner is allowed to raise. I think it's quite likely that partner has the version of the negative double with few points and 6 hearts, in which case five is high enough.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
0

#20 User is offline   mike777 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,739
  • Joined: 2003-October-07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2015-April-18, 17:24

even

xxx..AQJxx...xxxx...x

gives us chances in 6 and again I would expect this to be a very minimum borderline bid.

even

xxxx...AQJx...xxxx...x is not hopeless if against the odds.

perhaps I am being a bit optimistic but not overly. :)

Of course if negative x does not promise values, a constructive hand,that is different but even with less than constructive I showed a few hands that are possible-----------------
----------------

" had not given much consideration to a 4!D call, for fear P might think I had something like Jxx, x, AJxx, AKxxx. What would you do with that hand over 3!S? If you would pass, what is the weakest hand you'd find a 4!D call on? "
edit

If you open 1c and rebid 4d with this in your style ok.
0

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users