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worst of hands best of hands do I pass?

#1 User is offline   ugabugger 

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Posted 2015-March-03, 05:14

I am South and hold

x
QJxx
J10xxxxxx
zero

bidding as follows:


W passes

N bids 1

E 2

I passed

N bid 2

E rose to 4

opps and my p became rather disgruntled as I mused for quite some time

East West are vulnerable North South non vulnerable

would you pass or bid? If so what is your bid?


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have as many guesses as you wish

I shall send one of my kindle books by email FREE to the person who gives me the correct answer - check out my non fiction subjects on kindle - Gary Margrove

answer on the last day of September 2015
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2015-March-03, 05:30

hi Ugabugger, welcome to the forum. I formatted your post to make it easier to read.

View Postugabugger, on 2015-March-03, 05:14, said:

I am South and hold

x
-
J10xxxxxx
QJxx

bidding as follows (West deals):
pass-1-2-pass
pass-2-4-?

opps and my p became rather disgruntled as I mused for quite some time

would you pass or bid? If so what is your bid?

What was the vulnerability and scoring? I might try 5 if white against red. But then it might have been a better idea to bid 5 in the previous round.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#3 User is offline   ugabugger 

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Posted 2015-March-03, 05:38

View Postugabugger, on 2015-March-03, 05:14, said:

I am South and hold

x QJxx J10xxxxxx zero

bidding as follows:


W passes then N bids 1

E 2

I passed

N bid 2

E rose to 4

opps and my p became rather disgruntled as I mused for quite some time

would you pass or bid? If so what is your bid?


check out my non fiction books on kindle

Gary Margrove ugabugger@yahoo.com


have as many guesses as you wish

0

#4 User is offline   dicklont 

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Posted 2015-March-03, 05:42

Welcome to the forum.

5 is a good save, probably down 1 or 2 and it's likely that 4 makes.
I would do it on equal or favorable vulnerability.
When even your partner gets disgruntled you might try to make faster decisions, but thinking is allowed. :)
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Finding your own mistakes is more productive than looking for partner's. It improves your game and is good for your soul. (Nige1)
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#5 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2015-March-03, 05:46

View Postugabugger, on 2015-March-03, 05:14, said:

I am South and hold

x QJxx J10xxxxxx zero

bidding as follows:


W passes then N bids 1

E 2

I passed

N bid 2

E rose to 4

opps and my p became rather disgruntled as I mused for quite some time

East West are vulnerable North South non vulnerable

would you pass or bid? If so what is your bid?


check out my non fiction books on kindle

Gary Margrove ugabugger@yahoo.com


have as many guesses as you wish


x 4s 5c 5d 5h 5s 5n 6c 6d 6h 6s 6n 7c 7h 7s 7n
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#6 User is offline   dicklont 

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Posted 2015-March-03, 05:52

View Posteagles123, on 2015-March-03, 05:46, said:

x 4s 5c 5d 5h 5s 5n 6c 6d 6h 6s 6n 7c 7h 7s 7n

I agree that 4NT would be silly :D
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#7 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2015-March-03, 05:57

Welcome to the forums, the hand editor makes these problems more readable (the spade symbol on a white background with red edges):



5 is probably a good save, but partner might do something stupid and remove it back to spades at which point your hand could be close to worthless.

Vulnerability matters here also. I'd probably bid 5 green v red but pass otherwise.
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#8 User is offline   vinchy 

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Posted 2015-March-03, 06:15

Seeing as it is meant to be somewhat challenging (with a prize involved), I will venture 7 is the answer OP is looking for. :)
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#9 User is offline   dicklont 

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Posted 2015-March-03, 10:46

View PostCyberyeti, on 2015-March-03, 05:57, said:



5 is probably a good save, but partner might do something stupid and remove it back to spades at which point your hand could be close to worthless.

Vulnerability matters here also. I'd probably bid 5 green v red but pass otherwise.


Partner cannot touch the 5 bid, I heard him bidding spades twice, he knows that.
Helene is right in her comment that this hand should blast 5 in the first round, let them make the last guess.
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#10 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2015-March-03, 11:02

View Postdicklont, on 2015-March-03, 10:46, said:

Partner cannot touch the 5 bid, I heard him bidding spades twice, he knows that.
Helene is right in her comment that this hand should blast 5 in the first round, let them make the last guess.


He shouldn't touch it.

5 would be voidwood for us so unavailable on the first round.
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#11 User is offline   vinchy 

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Posted 2015-March-04, 00:52



Tell me if I'm wrong, but this is the hand I would expect from an author. Everything breaks.
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#12 User is offline   bigbenvic 

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Posted 2015-March-04, 01:21

4nt pick a minor?

Probably note not my choice I'm just guessing at the winning bid.
I'd probably bid 5d.
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#13 User is offline   boosterbbh 

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Posted 2015-March-04, 02:30

View Postvinchy, on 2015-March-04, 00:52, said:



Tell me if I'm wrong, but this is the hand I would expect from an author. Everything breaks.

If that's north's hand he has to bid 3cl before repeating spades
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#14 User is offline   tbr 

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Posted 2015-March-04, 05:43

After the 2 hearts overcall, why don't you make a negative double for both minors?
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#15 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2015-March-04, 05:50

There's a saying that 7-4 shapes are one-suited hands. While this may not always be true it certainly is for 8-4 hands. Even if we have a club fit, we will probably strugle to establish the diamond suit.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#16 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2015-March-04, 06:23

View Posttbr, on 2015-March-04, 05:43, said:

After the 2 hearts overcall, why don't you make a negative double for both minors?


Because conceding 870 makes you look silly, you have absolutely no defence and no hearts.

What's partner supposed to do with Qxxxx, KQ109, AK, xx for example
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#17 User is offline   case_no_6 

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Posted 2015-March-04, 11:29

First, your premise that there is a correct answer is flawed. Bridge is a game of imperfect information - unlike chess, for example - and thus the "best bid" is the one where the expected return is greatest. But even this is unknown for bids are not perfect descriptors - they have inherent "error" - and one cannot be sure the players have made the "proper" bids anyway. So there is some guess work involved. (I presume you are not asking for the bid that happens to "work" on a double dummy basis on this particular deal.)

Second, it would be helpful if you would present your deals using the established convention of presenting holdings for each bridge hand with the suits in rank order - i.e., first Spades, then Hearts, then Diamonds, and finally Clubs - because it is really hard for readers to follow your presentation otherwise.

Finally, I would Pass. The 4H bidder is playing poker. There is no hand where it is probabilistically correct to overcall 2H and then bid 4H on your own at your next turn.

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#18 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2015-March-04, 11:36

View Postcase_no_6, on 2015-March-04, 11:29, said:

Finally, I would Pass. The 4H bidder is playing poker. There is no hand where it is probabilistically correct to overcall 2H and then bid 4H on your own at your next turn.


Not true, what about a hand that's too good for a 4 bid initially and playable somewhere else, where you don't want to double in case the next bid is 4 and you have to guess at the 5 level, at least you've got your long suit into the game, and if you do back in at the 5 level you can get both suits in having said which is longer.
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#19 User is offline   masonbarge 

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Posted 2015-March-04, 21:56

Too easy.

4
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#20 User is offline   case_no_6 

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Posted 2015-March-04, 22:36

View PostCyberyeti, on 2015-March-04, 11:36, said:

Not true, what about a hand that's too good for a 4 bid initially and playable somewhere else, where you don't want to double in case the next bid is 4 and you have to guess at the 5 level, at least you've got your long suit into the game, and if you do back in at the 5 level you can get both suits in having said which is longer.


While it is certainly true I could be mistaken, I would like to see you construct an example hand that over caller could reasonably have on this auction given this hand where the 4h bid makes sense while fitting the situational constraints you have given. I don't see the disadvantage of bidding 4!h immediately.
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