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Pre-empted by opps and system

Poll: Pre-empted by opps and system (43 member(s) have cast votes)

What next?

  1. Pass (27 votes [62.79%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 62.79%

  2. Double (14 votes [32.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 32.56%

  3. 3H (2 votes [4.65%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.65%

  4. 3N (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 4C (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 4D (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 09:36

You're playing 4 card majors and weak NT, at pairs.


The "4 is a transfer to 4" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#2 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 09:46

3, competitive and I am not ashamed to put dummy down
4 sounds like a fit jump for me so I can never show the clubs
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#3 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 10:02

double. you have to double with hands like this playing weak NT otherwise you miss a simple 3NT. accordingly all negative doubles are more geared towards protecting opener's strong NT than finding a fit in the other major.

by the way, for those worried about end-playing partner when he's got no diamond stop, he has the option of passing freely as it's matchpoints.
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#4 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 10:21

View Postjillybean, on 2015-January-07, 09:46, said:

3, competitive and I am not ashamed to put dummy down
4 sounds like a fit jump for me so I can never show the clubs

Presumably you meant to say fit non-jump?
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#5 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 10:49

This is a great hand to PASS. If pard can't act over this, you probably have no game on.
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#6 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 11:36

View Postwhereagles, on 2015-January-07, 10:49, said:

This is a great hand to DOUBLE. If pard can't act after pass, he probably has a strong NT and you have game on.


FYP. B-)
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#7 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 15:57

maybe I can't play acol, but I thought pard would dbl with a strong NT
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#8 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 16:48

View Postwhereagles, on 2015-January-07, 15:57, said:

maybe I can't play acol, but I thought pard would dbl with a strong NT


That's not really where the emphasis lies. In ugly competitive auctions, responder tends to act quite light in the knowledge that he is facing extra strength or extra shape. Opener would not just reopen with 3NT just because he has a balance 16 count.

This applies to any standard system that uses a weak no trump - not just acol. Not that double is a perfect solution, but I think we have reached a level where it does not guarantee the other major.
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#9 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 17:04

View PostPhilKing, on 2015-January-07, 16:48, said:

That's not really where the emphasis lies. In ugly competitive auctions, responder tends to act quite light in the knowledge that he is facing extra strength or extra shape. Opener would not just reopen with 3NT just because he has a balance 16 count.

This applies to any standard system that uses a weak no trump - not just acol. Not that double is a perfect solution, but I think we have reached a level where it does not guarantee the other major.


Why would opener need to reopen with 3NT? He can jolly well double!!!

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#10 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 17:56

The next time someone tells you "Weak NT is really easy to play" you can put down a bet they haven't thought about such auctions.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#11 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 18:03

View PostHanoi5, on 2015-January-07, 17:04, said:

Why would opener need to reopen with 3NT? He can jolly well double!!!


Even in Acol world, a reopening double at the three level show, of all things, a takeout double (and therefore 5 hearts) - not a balanced hand.
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#12 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2015-January-07, 22:59

View Postjillybean, on 2015-January-07, 09:46, said:

3, competitive and I am not ashamed to put dummy down
4 sounds like a fit jump for me so I can never show the clubs

Just want to make sure you realize that this is 4 card majors and you could be in a 4-2 fit.
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#13 User is offline   ayebee 

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Posted 2015-January-08, 05:32

Double. Warns partner of a misfit and intending to bid 3NT over 3S
Nothing is guaranteed to be right here. The pre-empt is very effective.

Pass is out of the question at pairs. Defending 3 is sure to be a poor score at pairs - if you can beat it by enough to score better than a part score in hearts or clubs then you could make game.

3 is incorrect playing 4 card majors. If partner has a good enough heart suit he will bid again.

4 describes the hand accurately but bypasses 3NT which is probably the right contract if partner has a strong NT type hand.
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#14 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2015-January-08, 16:34

View Postcherdano, on 2015-January-07, 17:56, said:

The next time someone tells you "Weak NT is really easy to play" you can put down a bet they haven't thought about such auctions.

It is a fairly easy double playing weak nt and maybe an equally easy pass playing strong nt (and 4-card majors). But maybe opener's response to such a light double is problematic. If he has a Flannery hand we get too high. If he has five hearts and four clubs we will be playing a silly 3 contract.
Then again, if we play strong notrump and pass with this hand, opener is under a lot of pressure.
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#15 User is offline   keithhus 

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Posted 2015-January-09, 14:12

I am a beginner and would appreciate any comments. During my lessons I was told that if opposition bid at the 3 level I should pass unless I believe my partnership has 9 cards. Is the double an attempt to ascertain whether clubs would meet this requirement?
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#16 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2015-January-09, 14:20

View Postkeithhus, on 2015-January-09, 14:12, said:

I am a beginner and would appreciate any comments. During my lessons I was told that if opposition bid at the 3 level I should pass unless I believe my partnership has 9 cards. Is the double an attempt to ascertain whether clubs would meet this requirement?

I don't think you were told that you should never bid over their 3-level preempt with less than a 9-card fit. Maybe what your teacher said was that if you don't think you can make game and you don't think you have a nin-card fit, you should not bid over their 3-level preempt.

Here you have a hand that is strong enough to make game opposite a balanced 16-count, something which opener could easily have if you play Acol. Presumably, opener will do something if he has 19 points, so with 6-7 points you can pass. But with 9 points you should try to do something. Typically double.
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#17 User is offline   keithhus 

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Posted 2015-January-09, 15:59

View Posthelene_t, on 2015-January-09, 14:20, said:

I don't think you were told that you should never bid over their 3-level preempt with less than a 9-card fit. Maybe what your teacher said was that if you don't think you can make game and you don't think you have a nin-card fit, you should not bid over their 3-level preempt.

Here you have a hand that is strong enough to make game opposite a balanced 16-count, something which opener could easily have if you play Acol. Presumably, opener will do something if he has 19 points, so with 6-7 points you can pass. But with 9 points you should try to do something. Typically double.



Helena, thank you
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#18 User is offline   bdegrande 

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Posted 2015-January-09, 18:38

Pass. Playing 5 card majors I would bid 3.
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