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Interfernce after weak 2M

#1 User is offline   amateur_ 

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Posted 2014-December-05, 07:57

Another uncharted territory I came upon recently - 2(2)? imagine sitting N in http://tinyurl.com/lbbbcx4
Options: Pass is probably the wisest choice. Then 3m - I guess competitive bids (not forcing). 2NT - not fully exempted however ruled out due to void.
Next puzzle - what about DBL, is it penalty having pd's 2 hand clear limits? Clearly, no successful penalty is certain looking at N hand itself, but nevertheless possible experiment.
Curious to hear your assessment about DBL and 3/ meaning in this layout.
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#2 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2014-December-05, 08:06

Yes, after your partner preempts, your doubles are penalty. Of course, as you already noted, pass is probably the better decision here.

West's 2 bid was truly atrocious.
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#3 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-December-05, 08:27

atrocious, but it worked.

anyway, pass is relatively obvious.. the misfit means no game is on for our side, and anything we bid is forcing.
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#4 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-December-05, 10:01

View Postwhereagles, on 2014-December-05, 08:27, said:

anything we bid is forcing.

Is that so, even after interference?

Maybe you are right, opener probably won't pass a freebid anyway since it could be lead-directing with a fit.

Probably we ought to play transfers in this spot.
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-December-05, 10:24

Observation: If South had a weak-two (say AJ9XXX), we can tap and claim with the same line of play.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#6 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-December-05, 13:53

View Posthelene_t, on 2014-December-05, 10:01, said:

1. Is that so, even after interference?

2. (...) Probably we ought to play transfers in this spot.


1. I think so. Otherwise you're out of natural forcing bids.

2. I tried that and liked it. Meanwhile pard and I stopped playing together. meh
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#7 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2014-December-06, 00:13

View Posthelene_t, on 2014-December-05, 10:01, said:

Is that so, even after interference?

With my present partner I agreed that they are no longer forcing after interference, but it seems like a pretty academic problem either way.
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#8 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-December-06, 03:06

View Posthelene_t, on 2014-December-05, 10:01, said:

Is that so, even after interference?

Maybe you are right, opener probably won't pass a freebid anyway since it could be lead-directing with a fit.

Probably we ought to play transfers in this spot.


The whole auction is commedia dell'arte. The 2H opening is poor, the 2S bid is bad, East bid beautifully.
Transfers are a bad idea. Why make the weak hand declarer? Yes, new suits are forcing. The Pass card is not.
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#9 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-December-06, 04:33

View Postthe hog, on 2014-December-06, 03:06, said:

Transfers are a bad idea. Why make the weak hand declarer?


I dispute that. Transfers can be useful for (1) showing a suit in a natural & forcing way, and (2) directing the lead with main suit fit. Whether it's worth the extra complication and loss of natural bids, that's another story.

RANT ON

When I used to open 5-cards weak twos, I used transfer schemes with three hand types even:

(1) new suit, wimpish, i.e. "my suit is bigger than yours" [responder passes afterwards]
(2) side suit + main fit [responder bids 3/4 of main suit as invite/slam invite]
(3) new suit, constructive (responder bids something else nat).

Meaning (1) seems agricultural, but it did come out pretty often. Putting weak hand as declarer was never a problem. I can't remember a single time it mattered.

/RANT OFF
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#10 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-December-06, 07:18

View Postwhereagles, on 2014-December-06, 04:33, said:

I dispute that. Transfers can be useful for (1) showing a suit in a natural & forcing way, and (2) directing the lead with main suit fit. Whether it's worth the extra complication and loss of natural bids, that's another story.

RANT ON

When I used to open 5-cards weak twos, I used transfer schemes with three hand types even:

(1) new suit, wimpish, i.e. "my suit is bigger than yours" [responder passes afterwards]
(2) side suit + main fit [responder bids 3/4 of main suit as invite/slam invite]
(3) new suit, constructive (responder bids something else nat).

Meaning (1) seems agricultural, but it did come out pretty often. Putting weak hand as declarer was never a problem. I can't remember a single time it mattered.

/RANT OFF


Disagree Nuno. Points 2 and 3 are better handled by natural bids. If you want to play silly weak 2s you can always use the McCabe Adjunct.Whats the difference?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#11 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-December-06, 11:56

View Postthe hog, on 2014-December-06, 07:18, said:

Disagree Nuno. Points 2 and 3 are better handled by natural bids. If you want to play silly weak 2s you can always use the McCabe Adjunct.Whats the difference?


Well, think of transfers/McCabe as Rubensohl/Lebensohl. Both can be played, no prob.
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#12 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2014-December-06, 18:56

View Postmgoetze, on 2014-December-05, 08:06, said:

Yes, after your partner preempts, your doubles are penalty. Of course, as you already noted, pass is probably the better decision here.

West's 2 bid was truly atrocious.


2 may have been bad. The defense was truly atrocious.
I'm too lazy to play it out. Doesn't 2 go down?
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#13 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-December-06, 19:11

View Postjogs, on 2014-December-06, 18:56, said:

2 may have been bad. The defense was truly atrocious.
I'm too lazy to play it out. Doesn't 2 go down?

It was played out for you in the link ...post number one.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#14 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-December-06, 19:15

View Postjogs, on 2014-December-06, 18:56, said:

2 may have been bad. The defense was truly atrocious.
I'm too lazy to play it out. Doesn't 2 go down?

It was played out for you in the link ...post number one. OP and his partner defended as if Opener had a weak-two.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#15 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2014-December-08, 09:41

I saw the link. Trick 3 South should have returned a diamond. Give West a chance to go wrong.

Think 2 is cold. But with a diamond back West can easily go wrong and go down two.
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