[Liversidge]

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I had this hand yesterday.
We play Benji weak 2 Hearts/Spades with a strong 2♦.

I understand that 2♣ requires 8 playing tricks, and for long suits the ace, king and queen are counted together with all cards in excess of 3 in the suit; for short suits, only clear winner combinations are counted, and a Singleton K does not count as a playing trick. i don't have any long suits, but if I assume 7 playing tricks in the majors (hoping one will break) that still leaves me with only 7 playing tricks.
Should I open 2NT, or if I open 2♣ and partner responds 2♦(relay) do I rebid 2NT or 3NT?

[Cascade]

Its only 22.

I would open 2NT. If the diamonds were better I might be tempted to open 1♦. If I had 24 you are starting to get no alternative to 2♣ and rebid 2NT.

[helene_t]

I think 2NT (or 2♣ followed by a 2NT rebid) is practical. ♣K is more likely to take a trick if you become declarer, especially if you pretend to have a balanced hand.

Two important points:
- when considering a 2♣ (or 2♦), always ask yourself what your rebid is. Here the heart suit is probably not long enough to bid so your rebid is going to be 2NT. This means you have to chose the opening that is suitable for a balanced 22 (or whatever you evaluate this hand as).
- Opening (or rebidding) 2NT makes the auction very easy. Partner will ususally know how to procede (transfer or stayman). Auctions that start with 2♣/♦ followed by a suit rebid are much more murky: does responder's next bid show length or merely a stopper? Which (if any) part score bids can be passed? Which 4-level bids are natural and which are cues? So when in doubt, chose a 2NT opening or rebid.

[aguahombre]

Yes, it is 22 in HCP. It feels like less, however. I am one of those weirdos who don't put much value to a singleton King at the outset of an auction ---when deciding what to open.

What fun to open 1D..the only suit in which I don't have anything worthwhile, but auctions which start with 2N are called the "death auctions" for a reason, and I will avoid them when more than one flaw is present.

So, here is the minority vote for 1D.

[mike777]

agree I will start 1d

[mikeh]

I think opening 1♦ on jxxx with this hand is crazy. Put me down for showing a balanced 22 count, which in my methods is 2♣ but for some would be 2N.

For the 1♦ bidders, consider that opposite some Jxx Jxx xxx Qxxx we are playing 1♦ with good play for 3N. Not to mention how messy the auction might get after 1♦ and anyone else bids.

[neilkaz]

I'll bid this as a balanced 22.

[rmnka447]

I'm also treating this as a "balanced" 22 opener. If any other spot card in the hand were a ♣, you bid it that way. So you're off from a true 22 balanced by only one card. Bidding it as balanced also makes it unlikely that lose a major fit when one exists.

[Trinidad]

The OP is playing Benji. Can I assume he plays Acol? In that case this is a 1♠ opening for me - though I am no Acol expert. In a four card major system at least I don't have to open 1♦.

Rik

[helene_t]

It is a 1h opening if you want to open at the 1level. Do you upgrade the spades to a five card suit?

[wank]

to the op, in future you should probably spell your system out more. 'benji' means nothing to most people on here. it's basically not played outside Britain (NZ or australia maybe?), though the 2 openers are popular in France.

[Trinidad]

helene_t, on 2014-December-05, 02:45, said:

It is a 1h opening if you want to open at the 1level. Do you upgrade the spades to a five card suit?

No. I just never played Acol and thought 1♠ was the normal opening bid on a 4441. (I vaguely remembered something like "suit below the singleton".) If I am wrong and it is 1♥ then that will be my choice.

Rik

[Phil]

2N (opened or rebid) is probably right on this because its a short minor. With a short major I am much less inclined.

I was recently flamed on BW for suggesting A AJx AKxx AQJxx (something like that) was better opened 1♣ so perhaps do not listen to me

[mikeh]

Phil, on 2014-December-05, 15:06, said:

2N (opened or rebid) is probably right on this because its a short minor. With a short major I am much less inclined.

I was recently flamed on BW for suggesting A AJx AKxx AQJxx (something like that) was better opened 1♣ so perhaps do not listen to me

Heck, even I would flame you

Seriously, for a number of years I get a very informal track of the highest number of hcp I held where I wouldn't open 2♣. I have had 2 23 counts that I opened at the one-level, and both of them, not coincidentally, featured stiff Kings. I discount stiff Kings, when opening, far more than I'd think of discounting a stiff Ace.

It's not that I would like opening 2♣ with your A AJx AKxx AQJxx, but 9 controls, and a 4 loser hand is just a tad too much even for me, and I thought I was probably the most conservative 2♣ bidder around.

Having said that, don't ask me for my rebid.

[helene_t]

By the way, even playing Acol (with the standard agreement that this shape opens 1♥, at least if you have a minimum hand), you might open 1♦ with this hand because with 4441 types you usually have to pretent to have a 5-card suit and then you rather lie about a minor.

[WesleyC]

Show it as a balanced hand!

[jgillispie]

mike777, on 2014-December-04, 12:19, said:

agree I will start 1d

Absolutely. Unless your 2♦ structure has followups for 4441. I'm guessing not

[aguahombre]

jgillispie, on 2014-December-26, 21:23, said:

Absolutely. Unless your 2♦ structure has followups for 4441. I'm guessing not

Or our 2D 4-4-4-1 has followups for 23-25.

[gordontd]

Trinidad, on 2014-December-05, 07:18, said:

No. I just never played Acol and thought 1♠ was the normal opening bid on a 4441. (I vaguely remembered something like "suit below the singleton".) If I am wrong and it is 1♥ then that will be my choice.

Rik

I think spades were opened on those hands until the 1970s.