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Bad bidding or bad luck 2/1 ACBL

Poll: Bad bidding or bad luck (39 member(s) have cast votes)

How should it been bid?

  1. open 1 Heart (10 votes [25.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.64%

  2. 1NT - 3NT (22 votes [56.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.41%

  3. !NT -3Clubs puppet stayman (7 votes [17.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.95%

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#41 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-November-20, 02:15

Swap Wests minor suits and I d rather be in 3nt. But preferably played by W. Maybe if I open 1h I have methods to show a 33 (43) in which case on this hand I will end up in 3nt anyway, possibly played by W. But maybe opps will bid clubs.
So I am not sure how to investigate this scientifically. In general I don't feel so strongly about the issue but with doubleton clubs and exactly 16 points and my suit is hearts and it's a suit that doesn't play well if p has xxx and they break 4-1 I think opening 1H is bad. I would open this particular hand 1nt even if playing sef.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#42 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-November-20, 04:31

I'm no Indian National Master, but I really don't understand opening 1 here if you don't play Gazzilli. Sure it's not that NTy (though on a D lead opposite the average of all relevant responding hands, do I really think 4 losers in Hs will be easier to avoid than 5 in NTs? Not sure...), but presumably no-one is really planning to rebid 1N over 1. If you don't feel like rebidding this crusty suit, that leaves you with the 'slight' overbid of 2N.

So what about if we change the Q to the J? IMO the hand doesn't become any more NTy, but now the rebid problem is even worse, so surely 1N is just mandatory then? But it feels really skewed to me to say on a weaker hand of similar caliber we show our values initially and here we just wait.

On top of the constructive rebid problem, I don't think anyone's discussed the problem of competition, which is IMO the main value of playing a strong NT. If I open 1N on this hand, I've got it off my chest, and can sit back and let P make the decisions. If I open 1, what do I do if LHO calls 2, passed back? What about 2? In the latter case at least I suppose I double, but now I worry P's expecting either more strength or shape - if he bids 3, I don't see it ending well, and even 2M might be uncomfortable. Also after 1 3m P 4m, I'm really going to feel the pressure...
The "4 is a transfer to 4" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#43 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-November-20, 04:54

To be fair, I don't think any good player who opens 1h plans to rebid 2nt. 2d is the normal rebid although I suppose some would prefer to raise spades while sime would have methods that allow a 2c or 1nt rebid. With 15 you can downgrade and with 17 you can upgrade but this hand is obviously only opened 1h if you have methods to show a balanced 16 after that.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#44 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-November-20, 06:11

What helene said is the canonical way to bid these hands on SEF, which is very close to SAYC, and doesn't allow 5CM into 1NT openings.
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#45 User is offline   sassan 

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Posted 2014-November-21, 02:23

Thanks Wackojack for deep through analysis.
Still not sure when you analysed the hand in 5-3 fit, did you put the exact E-W hand into the program or program picked a random hand with 3 card hearts for W every time? this makes a big difference in the meaning of the analysis.
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#46 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2014-November-21, 06:10

Playing a different system than the field is asking for bad results out of nowhere, and here you got it.
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