[whereagles]

Matchpoints

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Simple question here. Do you support or bid spades first?

[kenrexford]

Support.

[Cthulhu D]

Tell partner about the fit, then take it from there. This is both my agreement with partner, and not in the least because 1NT would be inv(-) NF with 5 spades and I could drown the heart fit starting with 1S (0-4 spades F1) would just be bananas.

[PhantomSac]

This is a very interesting bridge hand

[rmnka447]

Support first with a 2 ♥ bid.

Yeah, you might miss a ♠ fit. But, it avoids a problem if LHO (West) finds a 3 of a minor bid. If it's passed back to you, now what do you do? Either 3 ♥ or pass might be right or wrong. And if you bid 3 ♥, partner might play you for a bit more than you have.

[MrAce]

PhantomSac, on 2014-October-27, 23:15, said:

This is a very interesting bridge hand

[diana_eva]

I would bid 1♠ and support later. I don't see why support first, sorry (and I really mean I don't get it, I'm missing something).

[wank]

diana_eva, on 2014-October-28, 03:38, said:

I would bid 1♠ and support later. I don't see why support first, sorry (and I really mean I don't get it, I'm missing something).

well you could jump to 3h on the next round, but some might consider that a bit of a stretch on a 7 count, even a very good one like this, especially as some play it as forcing.

2h on the next round isn't 'support', it's preference. that would be a loathsome sequence on this hand. you would be showing a bag of crap like kxxx xx xx qjxxx, when your hand is about 3 tricks better.

bidding spades also won't help partner judge. you have a holding which actually plays very well opposite shortage, whereas partner will be valuing fitting minor honours.

[aguahombre]

diana_eva, on 2014-October-28, 03:38, said:

I would bid 1♠ and support later. I don't see why support first, sorry (and I really mean I don't get it, I'm missing something).

What are you showing with your delayed support? Although close, I don't believe this one quite comes up to invitational strength, so if we start with 1S:

--pard rebids 1NT?...2H might show a constructive 3-card bump based on Spades for you. For us, it shows something else.
--pard rebids 2d?...2H is a mere 2-card preference.
--pard jump shifts, bids 2NT, or 3H?...you can't recover to show you actually had a good constructive 2H bid.

[whereagles]

PhantomSac, on 2014-October-27, 23:15, said:

This is a very interesting bridge hand

Sorry to waste your time. Perhaps I shouldn't be wasting mine in an otherwise dead forum.

[Trinidad]

diana_eva, on 2014-October-28, 03:38, said:

I would bid 1♠ and support later. I don't see why support first, sorry (and I really mean I don't get it, I'm missing something).

The problem is that you cannot support later.

If you rebid 2♥ that is not support, it is merely preference over partner's other suit, and it shows only a doubleton (on weird hands it might even be a singleton).
If you rebid 3♥ that is support, but it shows invitational values and you don't have those.

I once was playing against two aspiring intermediate players. On the first board, I had an 8 point 4324 hand and partner opened 1♥, which I raised to 2♥, making me dummy in 2♥. One of my opponents asked me why I didn't bid 1♠, since playing in a 4-4 fit could be better than playing in a 5-3 fit. I told him that a 4-4 fit often plays better than a 5-3 fit at the game level, but that with 8 HCPs the priority was at finding a good landing spot. If partner had extra values and 4 spades, we would still be able to reach 4 spades.

On the next deal, I opened 1♥ and partner raised to 2♥. Since I had extra values and 4 spades, I invited game by bidding 2♠ and partner jumped to 4♥. Before LHO led, I tried to be helpful to them and explained: "Here you see how one could still land in a 4-4 fit in spades. Even though I did not 100% promise four spades, partner certainly would have bid 3♠ if he had four of them to make me chose between 4♥ and 4♠."

Then LHO made his opening lead and partner put down a hand very similar to that of the OP: three hearts and five spades...

Rik

[NickRW]

whereagles, on 2014-October-28, 04:50, said:

Sorry to waste your time. Perhaps I shouldn't be wasting mine in an otherwise dead forum.

Uh. Relax. Justin likes his fun. But clearly it was an interesting hand for you at least. I voted to raise.

P.S. It gets a little more interesting if you're playing 4 card majors, especially if p is not very happy in moysians.

[MrAce]

whereagles, on 2014-October-28, 04:50, said:

Sorry to waste your time. Perhaps I shouldn't be wasting mine in an otherwise dead forum.

Promises...promises...

[nige1]

whereagles, on 2014-October-27, 20:16, said:

Matchpoints
Simple question here. Do you support or bid spades first?

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1♠ if you're playing a simple natural system but assuming a 5-card major system like 2/1 then, IMO, 2♥ = 10, 1♠ = 9, for the reasons argued by wank. e.g. there is a better argument for a 1♠ response with
♠ K J x x x ♥ Q J x ♦ x ♣ x x x.
I find polls more interesting when they identify who voted for what.

[PhantomSac]

whereagles, on 2014-October-28, 04:50, said:

Sorry to waste your time. Perhaps I shouldn't be wasting mine in an otherwise dead forum.

Sry for my post, was pretty rude for no reason.

[whereagles]

Apologies accepted, no hard feelings. By the way, I usually post under "interesting bridge hands" because I don't quite understand the current forum structure. Perhaps the hand would be better off in intermediate/adv discussion.

[ArtK78]

I would support immediately. The heart raise meets every criteria for the bid, while bidding spades first and then bidding hearts disguises the fact that you have real support.

It is more likely that you will be able to show your hand after raising immediately than if you bid 1♠ first. But bidding 1♠ first is a big winner when partner has both majors.

I don't understand bidding 1NT on these cards [no Kaplan inversion]. Many years ago, a partner of mine responded 1NT to my 1♥ opening holding SIX spades. I didn't understand it then, and I don't understand it now. Maybe in another 35 years I will understand it, but I doubt it.

Quite frankly, this is an interesting hand. But it is the type of interesting hand that we see over and over again, and everyone has already decided how they want to handle this situation. I doubt that this discussion is going to change anyone's mind. It is sort of like trying to decide whether to slow play pocket aces in hold 'em. Sometimes it is right to raise immediately, and sometimes it is right to slow play them (and sometimes it is right to fold them, but I would certainly never do that). I can't remember the last time I slow played them, as it always seems to get me into trouble.

[jogs]

diana_eva, on 2014-October-28, 03:38, said:

I would bid 1♠ and support later. I don't see why support first, sorry (and I really mean I don't get it, I'm missing something).

Don't feel alone. I would also bid 1♠, followed by 3♥. 3 hearts with a singleton opposite a known 5 card heart suit makes many tricks. These two bids describes the hand. Don't like the use of the term 'invitation'. I'll describe my hand. Pard should make the best bid possible with that info.

[ArtK78]

jogs, on 2014-October-28, 13:02, said:

Don't like the use of the term 'invitation'.

And I don't like the use of the term "4♥ down 2." But that is what happens when you issue an invitation (sorry about the use of that term) when you don't have one.

[johnu]

Playing Blue Team Club which is 4 card majors and canape, I would respond 1♠.