[ArtK78]

johnu, on 2014-October-28, 14:28, said:

Playing Blue Team Club which is 4 card majors and canape, I would respond 1♠.

Talk about a hijack.

OK - following up on the hijack. Playing Blue Team Club, why wouldn't you pass? Are you concerned that partner might have a strong Canape into a black suit? Or (and this is a reason for passing), wouldn't you be concerned that partner has a strong Canape into diamonds? Or, more likely and even worse, a weak Canape into diamonds?

[Jinksy]

I voted for 1♠ initially, but the arguments for 1♥ persuaded me.

[johnu]

ArtK78, on 2014-October-28, 14:34, said:

Talk about a hijack.

OK - following up on the hijack. Playing Blue Team Club, why wouldn't you pass? Are you concerned that partner might have a strong Canape into a black suit? Or (and this is a reason for passing), wouldn't you be concerned that partner has a strong Canape into diamonds? Or, more likely and even worse, a weak Canape into diamonds?

Well, the original problem did not specify what system they were playing, so it could be 4 or 5 card majors. I have found that to have been important information on at least 1 other occasion.

Of course, playing BTC, opener could have a 5, 6, or longer heart suit and up to 16 HCP, so game in hearts is a possibility. And if opener had a reverse into spades or clubs, you would miss game by passing. If this is a partscore hand, you make it easier for opponents to balance, plus partner would never expect you to pass with a solid responding hand and may misjudge the auction later. Other than that, pass would be at the top of my list.

As far as your worst case 2♦ rebid goes, you have an easy 2♥ bid and can play a Moysian fit if partner only has 4 hearts. Maybe this won't be an optimal contract but that happens when playing 4 card majors and canape. I also play reverse Flannery, so partner will usualy raise to 2♠ holding 3.

[NickRW]

Continuing the BTC thread hijack, one normally responds with 8+ and passes with less (and lets not get into further discussion of whether that is a good strategy or not). However, this 7 count has an ace, the clubs honours are working together, plenty of good spot cards and at least a partial fit for hearts (and BTC is only a "possible" canapé system, more often than not the suit opened is actually partner's best suit). So I would respond rather than pass. And, in that system, 1♠ leaves partner the most room, rather than rush into the possible moysian.

In Acol you would definitely respond but similar arguments apply to what to respond.

[helene_t]

whereagles, on 2014-October-28, 12:34, said:

Apologies accepted, no hard feelings. By the way, I usually post under "interesting bridge hands" because I don't quite understand the current forum structure. Perhaps the hand would be better off in intermediate/adv discussion.

One of my all-time favorites was Echognome's question about the proposal to merge "interesting bridge hands" with "expert/advanced": Where can experts post uninteresting hands?

But idd, this hand is more interesting if you play four card majors. Anyway, it illustrates an important principle.

[mcphee]

It is clearly best to raise H and show what you have. Maybe partner can make a game try, bid game, splinter, who knows, but partners like it when you raise,

[gszes]

It is indeed possible for spades to be a better contract than hearts and there
are other times where we would always want to bid spades before hearts for possible
slam purposes (AKQxx Axxx xx xx). The problem (pointed out above) is that there are
far too many follow up sequences where your heart support becomes "muddled" and the
result will be far too may missed game opportunities because opener cannot tell the
difference between a simple preference Kxxx xx Kxxxx xx and the hand shown. 1h 1s 2c 2h.

[Winstonm]

jogs, on 2014-October-28, 13:02, said:

Don't feel alone. I would also bid 1♠, followed by 3♥. 3 hearts with a singleton opposite a known 5 card heart suit makes many tricks.

Your opponents never lead trumps?

[ggwhiz]

One of the arguments for 2♥ is to find a safe spot early and 1♠ to get to the best game.

I'm a 1♠ bidder followed by a heart bid which may indeed only be a preference but if partner sneezes over that I'm bidding the right game, get to clarify the heart support should they compete up to 3♦ and get the right opening lead if they go any further.

If partner passes my 2♥ "preference" we are in the same safe spot.

[mgoetze]

whereagles, on 2014-October-28, 12:34, said:

Apologies accepted, no hard feelings. By the way, I usually post under "interesting bridge hands" because I don't quite understand the current forum structure. Perhaps the hand would be better off in intermediate/advnatural bidding discussion.

Yes.

[kenrexford]

I don't understand the comments about a 1♠ bid being the best bid to get to the best game. This assumes an idiot for a partner.

If your style is to raise hearts with 5♠/3♥, then won't partner know this? If partner has, say, 4♠/5♥, is he incapable of introducing spades simply because you have a heart fit?

I have numerous auctions that go like this:

1♥-P-2♥-P-

2♠-P-4♠

Or, something like that. What is so tricky about that?

If the thought is to get to the best partscore, that might be a different matter. 2♠ or 3♠ might be better than 2♥ or 3♥. However, when you have an 8-fit in hearts and a 9-fit in spades (when it matters), the opponents have a whole lot of minor cards and usually bid something exotic. If you manage to get past RHO, LHO is often lurking. 1♥-P-2♥-2NT is a lot easier to handle than 1♥-P-1♠-2NT, especially when there is no actual spade fit, Still, the issue cannot logically be "best game," but it might be "best partscore."

[aguahombre]

kenrexford, on 2014-October-29, 14:50, said:

I don't understand the comments about a 1♠ bid being the best bid to get to the best game. This assumes an idiot for a partner.

Yes. And, your point is?

[kenrexford]

aguahombre, on 2014-October-29, 14:55, said:

Yes. And, your point is?

Fair point. And, if the assumption is fairly reliable, 1S has the advantage of right siding the contract!

[Vampyr]

helene_t, on 2014-October-29, 05:33, said:

But idd, this hand is more interesting if you play four card majors. Anyway, it illustrates an important principle.

Too bad the OP did not give us any information about the system being played. Since one of the options was 1NT, with apparently no expectation of getting the dummy, 1NT seems to be forcing. Does this show spades, are single raises constructive, are major openings 5 cards? I suppose we are meant to guess.

[whereagles]

System is default: 5 card majors.

The 1NT option probably shouldn't be there, but doesn't matter because no one chose it

By the way, for all its worth, I have no special preference for a bid. 1♠ strikes gold if pard has 4 spades, whereas 2♥ might help of opps butt-in (although the hand can probably take the push to the 3 level if you bid spades first).

[Vampyr]

whereagles, on 2014-October-29, 18:23, said:

System is default: 5 card majors.

Default where you live, I guess, but not everyone lives there.

[nige1]

whereagles, on 2014-October-29, 18:23, said:

System is default: 5 card majors.

Vampyr, on 2014-October-29, 19:31, said:

Default where you live, I guess, but not everyone lives there.

Should this poll be in interesting bridge hands? or natural bidding? or even non-natural bidding if the default system is 2/1?

[Vampyr]

nige1, on 2014-October-29, 19:59, said:

Should this poll be in interesting bridge hands? or natural bidding? or even in non-natural bidding if the default system is 2/1?

Actually, I have been wondering (seriously) whether one of the new forums should be called "2/1GF bidding".

[the hog]

I will support. If pd bids 2m a 2H bid will sound like simple preference rather than real support.

[helene_t]

Vampyr, on 2014-October-29, 17:14, said:

Too bad the OP did not give us any information about the system being played. Since one of the options was 1NT, with apparently no expectation of getting the dummy, 1NT seems to be forcing. Does this show spades, are single raises constructive, are major openings 5 cards? I suppose we are meant to guess.

It is probably fair to assume some kind of wide-ranging 5cM, 1nt=15-17, if nothing else is stated. But yes it is relevant here how the single raise is played. I don't think it matters whether 1NT is forcing or not since the choice is between 1♠ and 2♥. We would have been told if we were playing Flannery, by the way.