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Oops Blame?

Poll: Oops (40 member(s) have cast votes)

ATB

  1. West Should not pass the double (33 votes [82.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 82.50%

  2. East Should pass it out (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. East should balance with something else (1 votes [2.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.50%

  4. Both to blame (2 votes [5.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  5. Bad Luck (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. Something Else (4 votes [10.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

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#21 User is offline   StevenG 

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Posted 2014-October-27, 06:41

Ok, may I ask?

Partner has opened and I have 10 points. Partner couldn't find a bid after the interference, so is weak. So it looks like the points split is something like 22-18 and we don't have much of a fit anywhere. They have at least 8 trumps, we have at most 8, possibly 7. I'm no great fan of the LoTT, but it seems to me that if they're making 2, we're unlikely to be making anything at the 3 level, so -110 is roughly par. If they're not, +100 is comparable to what we might get declaring, and +200 is a lot better.

Double might come off if partner has a second spade, but otherwise I fail to see its purpose.
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#22 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2014-October-27, 07:14

Why does partner have to be weak?. He might have some 1345 16 count and have no bid over 2H- take the actual West hand and give him the ace of diamonds (especially if double shows spade support). Now by passing, you are letting them play in 2H when you have 26 HCP combined. Now to mention the not-remote possibility that 2H can make, and you can make something. Also, if you open 1 with 4-4 in the minors, then East knows there is an 8 card fit.
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#23 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-October-27, 08:07

W doesn't even need to know if 2NT is scrambling or natural or even lebensohl since his hand would fit in any case.
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#24 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-October-27, 08:23

View PostStevenG, on 2014-October-27, 06:41, said:

Ok, may I ask?

Partner has opened and I have 10 points. Partner couldn't find a bid after the interference, so is weak. So it looks like the points split is something like 22-18 and we don't have much of a fit anywhere. They have at least 8 trumps, we have at most 8, possibly 7. I'm no great fan of the LoTT, but it seems to me that if they're making 2, we're unlikely to be making anything at the 3 level, so -110 is roughly par. If they're not, +100 is comparable to what we might get declaring, and +200 is a lot better.

Double might come off if partner has a second spade, but otherwise I fail to see its purpose.


Not sure what NT OP is playing (I believe normally weak but not sure online), but if playing a weak one, you can pretty much guarantee at least 5 clubs and an unbalanced hand so very probably one spade.

Manudude also makes some very valid points.

Is partner expected to bid 3 over 2 with x, Qx, QJxx, KQJxxx btw where 3 and 2 both can easily make.
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#25 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2014-October-27, 16:15

IMO West has a very tough decision. Assuming E-W are playing weak no trump then East can infer that west is unbalanced and likely has a 3 card heart suit. Thus likely 1345 and a min opener. What can West infer? East is 5233 or 5242 for the take-out double? Or have NS got a 9 card fit and so 5143? If 2is a make as is quite possible, then a making 3 level 8 card fit is unlikely. As west I would therefore go for 2N which I expect partner to take as natural, but if he pulls it to 3 I wont be upset.
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#26 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2014-October-27, 16:23

BTW east not to blame.
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#27 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2014-October-28, 10:04

west muust not pass this dbl.This is an action dbl.It shows tolerance for all remaining suits and at least two defensive tricks.Wests pass is therefore dubious.
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#28 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2014-October-28, 10:20

West must not pass this dbl as he can not see any possibility of defeating two hearts contract.The dbl is Action Dbl and shows a good hand without six spades and hence tolerance for remaining suits.It also shows at least two defensive tricks and hence can stand a pass if partner decides to pass with a different hand.East knows that West does not have 3 card spades since he did not make a support dbl.
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#29 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-October-28, 10:21

It's a bit unlucky, though. Declarer has four heart tricks and A. A fifth heart trick, Q, Q and a ruff in dummy are possible but mostly not three of them. At matchpoints I think defending 2X would have been a reasonable spot.
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#30 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-October-28, 10:37

View Posthelene_t, on 2014-October-28, 10:21, said:

It's a bit unlucky, though. Declarer has four heart tricks and A. A fifth heart trick, Q, Q and a ruff in dummy are possible but mostly not three of them. At matchpoints I think defending 2X would have been a reasonable spot.

I would think most of us duffers sitting West would see that our ruffing value in Spades is counterfeited by our QJX in Hearts, go no deeper than that, and remove.
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