[stelst]

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IMP's. Which is your least worst call?

[Cyberyeti]

Ouch this is horrible, glad I opened a 12-14 1N but this also depends on your style of T/O X. For us the double shows both other suits, for many people it only shows 4 hearts. It may be best to agree that 1N doesn't show a stop here, otherwise 2♣ if the T/O X shows both suits or 2♦ if it doesn't.

The same hand plus a king is not an issue in the weak notrump context because you have the extra power so can bid 2♠.

[aguahombre]

If I opened 1♦ and Partner responded 1♥, 1NT would be obvious.

The negative double exists because 1♥ is an IB. We got over fretting about a 1NT rebid years ago.

[the_clown]

1N is perfect description of the hand, partner can ask for stopper with 2♠. Even if they take the first 5 tricks we may still make.

[rhm]

Wrong forum.
Anything but 1NT is horrible whether you have agreements or not.

Rainer Herrmann

[whereagles]

I'm perfectly ok with

1NT
2♣
2♦

I would bid 1NT on my usual "shape/strength first" philosophy.

[ArtK78]

I guess I am alone here (or almost alone - whereagles at least mentions 2♦). To me, 2♦ seems clear.

Why am I going out of my way to bid 1NT when I do not have a spade stopper?

If I had 3433 I can see bidding 1NT without a spade stop, as I don't have a real alternative. But here I do. And this is IMPs, so I don't care if I score 110 instead of 120.

I guess I am showing my age.

[mikeh]

rhm, on 2014-October-24, 08:57, said:

Wrong forum.
Anything but 1NT is horrible whether you have agreements or not.

Rainer Herrmann

I agree that in principle 1N is the correct action from a bridge perspective, but only if one has the agreement, such that the partnership will never have the auction of P 3N P P P and dummy has 2=4=4=3 no spade card.

Having to bid 2♦ because one has the agreement that one cannot rebid 1N may be 'horrible' but it is still the correct call in those circumstances. To stick one's head in the sand and deliberately break partnership methods in a constructive auction is worse than horrible.

In those circumstances, one bids 2♦ in accordance with one's agreement and makes a mental note to persuade partner to change the methods.

Note that the odds of missing a good 3N after 2♦ are far less than the odds of reaching a silly 3N after 1N when partner expects you to have a stopper.

Where the 1N rebid gains is primarily on low-level partscores, and in particular 1N. This is especially true when advancer didn't raise spades. On game hands, with partner holding a stop, we'll reach 3N anyway no matter what we bid.

Edit: in more direct answer to Art, the main problem with 2♦ is that on this auction there is a very good likelihood that partner has spade length and often spade values (Qxx or better) because on a partscore hand (games take care of themselves usually), the opps have values and there was no raise.

Then there is a very real concern that we are heading for a poor 5-2 or even 5-1 fit at the 2-level when 7 tricks are available in 1N.

It would be no surprise for dummy to hit with KJx KQxx xx Jxxx or the like.

However, when one plays bad methods, the solution is to change methods, not to violate systemic agreements arbitrarily.

[wanoff]

1NT.
Not too worried about missing 5♦ since with 4-4 reds and FG partner could have bid 2♦ (inverted).

[Cyberyeti]

wanoff, on 2014-October-24, 16:46, said:

1NT.
Not too worried about missing 5♦ since with 4-4 reds and FG partner could have bid 2♦ (inverted).

If you allow a 4 card major for an IM, I do, many don't

[MrAce]

wanoff, on 2014-October-24, 16:46, said:

1NT.
Not too worried about missing 5♦ since with 4-4 reds and FG partner could have bid 2♦ (inverted).

You mean 2♦ over 1♠ inverted?

This reminds me of a very bad memory. I was playing Reisinger with Richard Pavlicek (Senior). It was 2nd or 3rd day of Reisinger and I only practiced with him on OKB. I opened 1♦, I think he was Nystrom who overcalled 1♠ and Richard bid 2♦ (inverted which I had no idea of) I passed. He was not happy at all

[nige1]

stelst, on 2014-October-24, 06:12, said:

IMP's. Which is your least worst call?

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IMO 2♦ = 10, 2♣ = 7, 1N = 6. You have more ♦s than you might have, so the popularity of a misdescriptive1N is puzzling.

[the hog]

Agree with MikeH. By far the best bid in a normal partnership is 1NT. Without agreements, I bid 1NT. Reverse your 10 and 6 and you have it correct Nigel.

[neilkaz]

the hog, on 2014-October-24, 21:34, said:

Agree with MikeH. By far the best bid in a normal partnership is 1NT. Without agreements, I bid 1NT. Reverse your 10 and 6 and you have it correct Nigel.

We agree. If I was going to bid 2♦ here with a 5 bagger, I'd like it to be a considerably better suit. ie one that could just about stand to play opposite a stiff.

[GrahamJson]

To my mind the one thing that 1nt should guarantee is a stop. It is not the same as 1nt in an uncontested auction as it may have to be bid on an unbalanced hand. For example, what would you rebid on the same auction with AJxx x QJxxx KQx?

[mike777]

As a nonexpert the one thing that it seems is 1n should not be 100% stop in a tested auction.


so 1nt

11-13 check
balanced hand check
non 100% stopper in spades..check.

I fully grant that 2 suited hands with shortness in the range of 14-16 or so are tough and a weakness in 2/1.

[Trinidad]

the_clown, on 2014-October-24, 06:37, said:

1N is perfect description of the hand, partner can ask for stopper with 2♠.

Unless they bid 3♠ first...

I might bid 1NT myself, but it is certainly not a perfect description and it may backfire spectacularly.

Rik

[wanoff]

MrAce, on 2014-October-24, 17:32, said:

You mean 2♦ over 1♠ inverted?

This reminds me of a very bad memory. I was playing Reisinger with Richard Pavlicek (Senior). It was 2nd or 3rd day of Reisinger and I only practiced with him on OKB. I opened 1♦, I think he was Nystrom who overcalled 1♠ and Richard bid 2♦ (inverted which I had no idea of) I passed. He was not happy at all

Yes, so on game hands the chance of a doubleton spade is reduced. Even ♠Jxx maybe an effective stop.
RP naïve using one of his toys in a new partnership.

[1eyedjack]

I have read the theory about bidding 1N without a guard. You are balanced. You have the right values. You are only at the 1 level. He only overcalled at the 1 level. His partner did not support. Partner can cue 2S to ask for guard (perhaps). Yada yada. Personally I have only ever ended in a world of hurt by bidding 1N, if partner can help in Spades it is wrongsided for the lead, and I have 2 more Diamonds than promised, so I bid 2D

[chasetb]

Unless 1NT promises a stopper, it is probably the best bid. I can see 2♣ working as well - just hide a Spade in with the Clubs. 2♦ seems silly on this 5-card suit.