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Borderline bid

Poll: Borderline bid (16 member(s) have cast votes)

Playing SAYC, what's your call?

  1. 1S (2 votes [12.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.50%

  2. 2S (14 votes [87.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 87.50%

  3. Pass (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Playing Fantunes, what's your call? (see below)

  1. 2S (16 votes [100.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 100.00%

  2. Pass (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 00:59



(ETA) rats, I forgot to include vulnerability - it's unfavourable

a) Playing a standard system (SAYC for argument's sake), do you open this 1, 2 or pass?

b) Playing Fantunes, do you open 2 or pass?

To give some context to the latter, our Fantunes 2-bid is '10-13 points after allowing for distribution, with 5+ cards in the suit, but promising a singleton outside if only 5'. So I find a better way to think about it is maybe 'about a point less than a minimum SAYC distribution-based opening bid'. Obviously NV you might take some liberties, but 1st in, vul, we try to keep them constructive.

Somehow this hand feels on the cusp of both a Fantunes and weak 2.
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#2 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 02:19

Any reason why I should evade the system? Seems like normal 2 in normal and fantunes...
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#3 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 03:32

For me it's both. At the table, opening 2S got a disastrous result, and while I realise that's mainly bad luck, I think it's such a poor 10 count that conceivably passing it (playing Fantunes) could be the winning action at these colours. I don't normally loser count, but this is one of the only Fantunes 2-bids I can remember that had 8, and the KQH and JC look ridiculously overrated on Milton-Work. P will be punting game on most reasonably crisp 10 counts with 4s - he's also likely to compete heavily over Hs with reasonable s, which might work badly.

I'm not talking myself into not bidding it, but was uncertain enough to bring it here.
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#4 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 03:52

For me we would open 1 playing what I play (Acol rather than SAYC), 2 in Fantunes, if you pass in Fantunes, partner will have Q9xx, J10xx, AKxx, x.
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#5 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 04:36

View PostCyberyeti, on 2014-October-23, 03:52, said:

For me we would open 1 playing what I play (Acol rather than SAYC), 2 in Fantunes, if you pass in Fantunes, partner will have Q9xx, J10xx, AKxx, x.


Maybe, but if P has that hand, the opps are likely to bid Cs, giving P a chance to X or you a chance to overcall. They'll prob find a sac, but they might have done that anyway.
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#6 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 04:38

Just noticed the vul came out wrong in the OP. It's unfavourable - any other colours I'd think it clear cut.
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#7 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 06:17

View PostJinksy, on 2014-October-23, 04:36, said:

Maybe, but if P has that hand, the opps are likely to bid Cs, giving P a chance to X or you a chance to overcall. They'll prob find a sac, but they might have done that anyway.


Fine if anybody bids at all, 4x10 not out of the question here.
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#8 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 06:44

IMO there is no such thing as an in-between. If suit quality and pattern are appropriate for 2, then always open either 2 or 1, depending on overall strength, but never pass. It's a bidders game, if you have a bid, then bid.

edit: just now seeing that it is unfavorable. Now the suit is close to not good enough. But I still bid 2. Never played Fantunes, but given your description the hand seems better suited to 1.

edit again: I misread that entirely, lol. 2 always.
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#9 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 06:51

In Fantunes 1 would show a much stronger hand. The choices are 2 or pass (or 3, I suppose).
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#10 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 06:53

View PostCyberyeti, on 2014-October-23, 06:17, said:

Fine if anybody bids at all, 4x10 not out of the question here.


Sure, but I'm just saying it reduces the weight of that hand as evidence for opening 2.
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#11 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 06:59

lol at me. Make it 2 always. Morings are rough on me, have pity Posted Image
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#12 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2014-October-23, 09:38

Is everyone who has replied so far playing a Multi and constructive opening two-bids?
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#13 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2014-October-26, 02:16

Vampyr, I can't play Multi (stupid Mid-Chart and no partners who are willing to play MC), and I think it's clearly a 2 in both systems. It has 3/top 5 in Spades, a maximum in point count, and not really too much defense.
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#14 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2014-October-29, 17:25

This is first seat red vs white? Seems like a normal 2 opener in all but 4th seat playing SAYC or 2/1.
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#15 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2014-October-29, 19:25

View Postchasetb, on 2014-October-26, 02:16, said:

I think it's clearly a 2 in both systems.


You may be right. In Acol-style systems, it is not.
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#16 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2014-October-29, 20:35

View PostJinksy, on 2014-October-23, 00:59, said:


unfavourable
a) Playing a standard system (SAYC for argument's sake), do you open this 1, 2 or pass?
b) Playing Fantunes, do you open 2 or pass?
To give some context to the latter, our Fantunes 2-bid is '10-13 points after allowing for distribution, with 5+ cards in the suit, but promising a singleton outside if only 5'. So I find a better way to think about it is maybe 'about a point less than a minimum SAYC distribution-based opening bid'. Obviously NV you might take some liberties, but 1st in, vul, we try to keep them constructive. Somehow this hand feels on the cusp of both a Fantunes and weak 2.
IMO 2 is OK, playing either system.
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