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Not a new minor forcing auction

#1 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-October-18, 10:54


Some questions about these explanations:
  • Should 2N deny more than 4 hearts?
  • Should 3 show 3 hearts? Should it show more than a minimum? Or does it actually show one or the other?
  • Shouldn't 1N deny 5?

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#2 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2014-October-18, 11:13

1. Yes. NMF is invitational or better. There is no reason to bid 2NT with 5 Hearts
2. 3H is an unusual call over 2NT, given the above. I would have a maximum, probably 2344 or 2353 with a weakish doubleton in S.
3. Certainly 1NT should deny 5 clubs. 5-5 is crazy and with 2245 you would open 1c if intending to bid 1NT over a major. Might bid 4 card D before 5 card C with singleton in a major.
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#3 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-October-18, 11:20

View Postiandayre, on 2014-October-18, 11:13, said:

There is no reason to bid 2NT with 5 Hearts


I don't think it is impossible for 3N to be the superior game despite having a 5-3 Major suit fit. If responder diagnoses that this is likely, he might perhaps bid 2N with a 5 card major rather than nmf.


Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

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#4 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2014-October-18, 12:29

Right, 3NT could be superior to the 5-3 H fit. The way to explore that is to bid 2C, and if partner bids 3H showing a max with 3, to then offer 3NT as an alternative. If pard has a minimum with 3 Hearts you are happy to stop in 2H.
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#5 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-October-18, 12:53

Well I haven't tried to construct a hand, but going via 2C implies consultation, ie if you have a 5-3 fit, you have no strong opinion, but if you go through 2N you have a strong(er) opinion that a 5-3 fit is likely to be irrelevant, and it has the added benefit of less information leakage to the opponents. I just like to preserve flexibility unless there is a strong case for eliminating it.

All that said and done, if we are resigned to GIB departing from explanations by small degrees, I would accept that it makes sense for 2N "officially" to deny a 5th Heart, but then not be too surprised if on occasion it turns up with one, as being the lesser distortion than including a 5th H in the explanation that is only observed in a minority of cases.


Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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