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HUM ... Thoughts please

#1 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 04:11

We will have to play in a strong London league against a pair whose methods are:
“Dutch Heart” (based on Max Rebattu’s “Dutch Spade”) 2/1=FG in general approach/style
Routinely open 11 hcp hands except 4333, where we do usually Pass, 1C & 1D are TRF openings in the above context
1 (=) is 3D only if 4=4=3=2 exactly, otherwise 4+D
1 is a “Fert” (fertiliser), i.e. a WK and ART bid
1NT is WK (11-13 hcp)
2 & 2 are both ART and virtually FG; PRE’s are more pure than typical (as 1 is available)
1/1 = 6+ or good 5 hcp or an A (may be shaded over 1 or 1)
Simple suit responses to Pass/1C/1D show 5+ length in the suit BWS 2001 in style where otherwise undefined

Any advice please?
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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#2 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 04:27

Seems like a rotation of normal methods. I don't see any clear advantage.
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#3 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 04:34

Over 1H (0-10 throughout Graham/Castleton)

The basic ethos is that on moderate balanced hands we should just let them try and sort things out if they can - the methods are a disaster in terms of finding a playable partscore.

Double 15+ “balanced” or some GF hands
1S opening bid
1NT clubs - sound
2C diamonds - sound
2D hearts (usually 6 or 55, let them stew if nv versus vul)
2H/S as opening, but 55 fairly sound
2NT 21-22
3any very good preempt

After transfer overcall, break to suit or 2NT is forcing for 1 round.

After X-p:
1S transfer to 1NT (5+ or 0-4 4441 or similar), then:
... 1NT 15-18 (system on) (13-16 in 4th)
... 2C 19-20 bal, then (17-18 in 4th)
...... 2D hearts
...... 2H spades
...... 2S puppet to 2NT (use to start normal auctions)
...... 2NT clubs
...... 3C diamonds (at least inv)
...... 3H+ DNE
... 2D GF (2H neg waiting, 2NT hearts)
... 2H/S Acol (rubber bridge continuations)
... 2NT 23-24 (system on) (21-22 in 4th)
... 3C+ DNE
1NT 0-4(5) bal to play opposite 19-20 bidding reverts to above:
Pass 15-20
2C 22-23 bal, then as above
2D GF etc
2M Acol 2
2C 6 card suit, constructive opposite 19-20
2D to play opposite 19-20
2H/S 6 card suit, constructive opposite 19-20

If third seat bids a suit, all actions from fourth seat are as if 1NT, so double take-out, 2 any nf and 2NT+ = transfers.

After 1H-P-1S (16+), then as for strong club defence, so X = MM, 1NT = mm.

After 1H-P-other, as per normal system. After 1H-P-P we use the same system as above, but all ranges are reduced by 2 points.
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#4 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 04:38

View PostPhilKing, on 2014-October-15, 04:34, said:

Over 1H (0-10 throughout Graham/Castleton)

The basic ethos is that on moderate balanced hands we should just let them try and sort things out if they can - the methods are a disaster in terms of finding a playable partscore.

Double 15+ “balanced” or some GF hands
1S opening bid
1NT clubs - sound
2C diamonds - sound
2D hearts (usually 6 or 55, let them stew if nv versus vul)
2H/S as opening, but 55 fairly sound
2NT 21-22
3any very good preempt

After transfer overcall, break to suit or 2NT is forcing for 1 round.

After X-p:
1S transfer to 1NT (5+ or 0-4 4441 or similar), then:
1NT 15-18 (system on) (13-16 in 4th)
2C 19-20 bal, then (17-18 in 4th)
2D hearts
2H spades
2S puppet to 2NT (use to start normal auctions)
2NT clubs
3C diamonds (at least inv)
3H+ DNE
2D GF (2H neg waiting, 2NT hearts)
2H/S Acol (rubber bridge continuations)
2NT 23-24 (system on) (21-22 in 4th)
3C+ DNE
1NT 0-4(5) bal to play opposite 19-20 bidding reverts to above:
Pass 15-20
2C 22-23 bal, then as above
2D GF etc
2M Acol 2
2C 6 card suit, constructive opposite 19-20
2D to play opposite 19-20
2H/S 6 card suit, constructive opposite 19-20

If third seat bids a suit, all actions from fourth seat are as if 1NT, so double take-out, 2 any nf and 2NT+ = transfers.

After 1H-P-1S (16+), then as for strong club defence, so X = MM, 1NT = mm.

After 1H-P-other, as per normal system. After 1H-P-P we use the same system as above, but all ranges are reduced by 2 points.

Thanks. I will report back after we play them.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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#5 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 04:41

View Postlamford, on 2014-October-15, 04:38, said:

Thanks. I will report back after we play them.


Note that you can take the defence to the table.
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#6 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 09:20

The formatting was lost.

I have indented parts of it now, so that it makes a bit more sense.
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#7 User is offline   Oof Arted 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 11:51

Just a Thought is the competition under EBU and therefore is it a Level 4 or above competition???
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#8 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 12:03

View PostPhilKing, on 2014-October-15, 04:34, said:

Over 1H (0-10 throughout Graham/Castleton)
The basic ethos is that on moderate balanced hands we should just let them try and sort things out if they can - the methods are a disaster in terms of finding a playable partscore.

Double 15+ "balanced" or some GF hands
1S opening bid
1NT clubs - sound
2C diamonds - sound
2D hearts (usually 6 or 55, let them stew if nv versus vul)
2H/S as opening, but 55 fairly sound
2NT 21-22
3any very good preempt

After transfer overcall, break to suit or 2NT is forcing for 1 round.

After X-p:
1S transfer to 1NT (5+ or 0-4 4441 or similar), then:
... 1NT 15-18 (system on) (13-16 in 4th)
... 2C 19-20 bal, then (17-18 in 4th)
...... 2D hearts
...... 2H spades
...... 2S puppet to 2NT (use to start normal auctions)
...... 2NT clubs
...... 3C diamonds (at least inv)
...... 3H+ DNE
... 2D GF (2H neg waiting, 2NT hearts)
... 2H/S Acol (rubber bridge continuations)
... 2NT 23-24 (system on) (21-22 in 4th)
... 3C+ DNE
1NT 0-4(5) bal to play opposite 19-20 bidding reverts to above:
Pass 15-20
2C 22-23 bal, then as above
2D GF etc
2M Acol 2
2C 6 card suit, constructive opposite 19-20
2D to play opposite 19-20
2H/S 6 card suit, constructive opposite 19-20

If third seat bids a suit, all actions from fourth seat are as if 1NT, so double take-out, 2 any nf and 2NT+ = transfers.

After 1H-P-1S (16+), then as for strong club defence, so X = MM, 1NT = mm.

After 1H-P-other, as per normal system. After 1H-P-P we use the same system as above, but all ranges are reduced by 2 points.
For what is DNE the abbreviation?
Spoiler

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#9 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 13:02

DNE = Does Not Exist
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#10 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 13:04

View PostOof Arted, on 2014-October-15, 11:51, said:

Just a Thought is the competition under EBU and therefore is it a Level 4 or above competition???



Technically it is not an EBU-officiated league, although it is played at an affiliated club.

But in any case any event played anywhere in the EBU is allowed to set its own system regulations or lack thereof.
This isn't the only English event where HUMs are allowed.
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#11 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 13:19

After their opening pass, obviously 1 is a takeout double and everything else is an overcall.
After their 1 and 1 openings, I think it's best to play double as a balancedish opening hand and a cue-bid as a traditional takeout double.

I've emailed Lamford the methods I used against the 1H opening. They're similar to Phil's, but I've provided a bit more detail.

After the transfer overcalls I think you should play step two as a Stayman-like relay for balanced hands, and 2NT as the relay suit. For example:
(1) 2:
- 2 = not enough for anything else
- 2 = balanced inv+, asking
- 2 = natural
- 2NT = hearts, F1
- 3 = natural F1
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#12 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 18:28

View Postlamford, on 2014-October-15, 04:11, said:

Any advice please?


Partner someone who looks a bit like a secretary bird?
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#13 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2014-October-15, 20:47

View PostFrancesHinden, on 2014-October-15, 13:02, said:

DNE = Does Not Exist
Thank you Frances. In this context I prefer
Undef = undefined
NSU No special understanding or No systemic understanding.:)
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#14 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2014-October-16, 01:12

View Postnige1, on 2014-October-15, 20:47, said:

Thank you Frances. In this context I prefer
Undef = undefined
NSU No special understanding or No systemic understanding.


Those three all have a different meaning from "does not exist". "Does not exist" implies an agreement not to bid it, but your suggestions don't.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#15 User is online   mycroft 

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Posted 2014-October-16, 10:39

as Gnasher says, DNE means "we have agreed not to make this call".

After 1NT-2, our Keri system (the original out of the book) says "Thou shalt bid 2", and all other calls DNE. Frankly, our discussions have boiled down to actually explaining 2 as either "looks like he psyched 1NT" or "looks like he just noticed his diamonds are *also* hearts". That's what DNE means.

"Undefined" means "if you bid it, partner will have to try to work it out, and you're hoping she will".
NSU means "no agreement, partner's going to follow meta-agreements" (which in my case likely will be one or more of "cue of their suit talks about stoppers when not otherwise defined", "if it's reasonable to play, it is", and "confusing bids are forcing" - hopefully not the last two :-)
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