[helene_t]

You can play it as weak, or strong with diamonds. Diamond hands are awkward after a 2c opening. And if p opens a multi and you have lots of diamonds, you know he is weak

[Cyberyeti]

chasetb, on 2014-October-12, 00:55, said:

1.) Does anyone have a good write-up of Multi 2♦, at least a version similar to this? I already have one for weak-only.

2.) Even if partner has the strong hand, I am passing this. And then changing the bid after the game so that it's weak-only and much more pre-emptive/fun!

To give you a rough write-up of this

2♦-2♥(P/C, normal response)

P=weak ♥
2♠ = weak ♠
2N = big bal
3♣ = 8 playing tricks ♣
3♦ = 8 playing tricks ♦

2♦-2♠(hearts)- bids as over 2♥ except P=♠, 3♥=♥

2♦-2N strong relay
3♣=good ♥ weak 2 (3♦ asks how good)
3♦=good ♠ weak 2 (3♥ asks how good)
3♥=bad ♥ weak 2
3♠=bad ♠ weak 2
3N=big bal
4m=8 playing tricks in that minor

Some people play the good/bad bids the other way round over 2N or do something more complicated. When I played a multi we played 2♦-3N as 4-4 majors, enough to make 3N opposite the minimum strong balanced but not enough to make a slam opposite a max which allowed you to preempt partner's major without screwing up the strong balanced.

[1eyedjack]

I would pass. The risk, as already identified, is partner having the strong bal. But even with such a hand there is no certainty of the Diamonds running. Passing describes the hand perfectly, should it not get passed out partner will be well placed to take any further action. Including sacrificing in Diamonds if he has a weak 2 plus some D support.

[MrAce]

the hog, on 2014-October-11, 21:53, said:

I agree,but this op does so your reply is totally unhelpful. I bid 2H.

Yes his reply may not be helpful to the topic. Otoh, he gave the best advice in this topic that will be helpful to the OP, if OP listens to him imho. But i made a long debate about this with another forum member in the past and I do not want to get into details of it again.

When someone tells you that he is a heavy smoker and asks your opinion about how to avoid heavy breathing and terrible coughs, headaches and high blood pressure, you need to tell him to quit smoking. Your answer will not help to heavy smokers or any smoker for that matter, who are not willing to quit, but it will still be the best suggestion. If OP insists on playing it, he made his bed, he will have to sleep in it.

[whereagles]

"Smoking and drinking won't hurt you in the long run." - Billy Eisenberg

[whereagles]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-October-12, 03:22, said:

1. And this is why the 2♥ bid you describe is banned in the UK in most events.

2. Your weak options have to have an anchor suit, if not your either/or may not contain the suit opened.

1. Ah, ok.

2. Excuse me?

[helene_t]

Point 2. means that if the long suit is unknown, it must at least be known not be the opening suit. You can play 2♥ as a weak hand with spades, clubs or diamonds, or as a weak hand with hearts+other, but not as a weak hand with hearts OR something else.

[whereagles]

think i see it.. thx

[msjennifer]

I do not know who put the balanced 24 HCP hand in the multi 2 D bid.In my opinion it is absolutely silly .One opens 2 C on such a hand and rebids 2 NT with 23-24 and 3NT with 25/26..It is much sensible to play 2D as Flannery as in one bid you tell your hand to partner who can now preempt or sign off or make constructive forcing bids or even Pass.With the given options a 2 H bid is the only sensible bid on this particular hand.

[helene_t]

msjennifer, on 2014-October-12, 13:04, said:

I do not know who put the balanced 24 HCP hand in the multi 2 D bid. In my opinion it is absolutely silly .One opens 2 C on such a hand and rebids 2 NT with 23-24 and 3NT with 25/26.

You can play that but the 3NT rebid takes up a lot of bidding space.

You can play 2♣ followed by 2NT as 23-24 and 2♣ followed by 2♥ followed by 2NT as 25+ but some people want to play the 2♥ response to 2♣ as "bust", which means that you can't differentiate after that. Besides, many people want the 2NT opening to be 20-21 (or even 19-20 for some) rather than 21-22.

[the hog]

msjennifer, on 2014-October-12, 13:04, said:

I do not know who put the balanced 24 HCP hand in the multi 2 D bid.In my opinion it is absolutely silly .One opens 2 C on such a hand and rebids 2 NT with 23-24 and 3NT with 25/26..It is much sensible to play 2D as Flannery as in one bid you tell your hand to partner who can now preempt or sign off or make constructive forcing bids or even Pass.With the given options a 2 H bid is the only sensible bid on this particular hand.

In my opinion your advice is totally silly. Sure open 2NT with 21-22 but go via Kokish to show 25-26, not the bludgeon 3NT bid.

[001hans]

Interesting problem. Usually multi-2D includes strong hand(s). 2S would be my choice: if partner has spades, we may escape if opps' spades are 4-3.

But the main problem lies elsewhere. Suppose your multi-2D includes a 22/23 NT and that you open 2NT with 20/21 or 2Clubs with 24/25. With a 22/23 NT-hand partner needs time to do his counting: 1 point more or less is of vital importance for the choice of opening bid. So, often your partner can conclude from the time you need before you open 2D (if weak with 6 spades or 6 hearts only a few seconds; with 22/23 significantly longer) whether you have a weak or a strong hand. And that may influence his choice of response. For example: if you have xxx, Jxxx, Hxxxx, x, you respond with a preemptive 3H if you can be pretty sure that partner has a weak hand with a 6-card major, but 2H/S if he needed some time to do his counting ….

The same applies to other Multi-type opening bids, like 2 Clubs as either a specific strong NT-hand or weak with both majors.

Therefore I propose to use the STOP-rule (one's left hand opp. has an obligation to pause for 10 seconds before taking action) also BEFORE placing an 2X-opening bid on the table, so as to make it impossible for his partner to draw conclusions from the time used to assess his hand.

HvdH

[msjennifer]

I play the following.A 2C opening shows,(a) 23 plus if balanced,(b)nine or more winners if single suiter major.©ten or more winners if single suiter in minor.
Responses:(a)2D shows less than 8 HCP and also less than one and half Culbertson tricks.(b)2H/S and 3C/D show 8 plus HCP and the named 5plus suit.©2NT shows 8 plus balanced hand.(d)3H/S and 4C/D show slam hands 4441 with the bid suit singleton.I never faced any problems with this plan.

[Cyberyeti]

msjennifer, on 2014-October-12, 23:30, said:

I play the following.A 2C opening shows,(a) 23 plus if balanced,(b)nine or more winners if single suiter major.©ten or more winners if single suiter in minor.
Responses:(a)2D shows less than 8 HCP and also less than one and half Culbertson tricks.(b)2H/S and 3C/D show 8 plus HCP and the named 5plus suit.©2NT shows 8 plus balanced hand.(d)3H/S and 4C/D show slam hands 4441 with the bid suit singleton.I never faced any problems with this plan.

This is a perfectly valid scheme but fairly old fashioned. Do you play 2N 20-22 ? if so you lose out a bit there as either you miss games or bid some bad ones, many people use a 2 point range now rather than 3.

Also bidding after 2♣-2N is horrible and wrongsides NT, which is why many nowadays play 2♣-2♦ as a GF waiting bid so that opener can describe their hand at a lower level.

Also if you need 10 tricks for a single suited minor, what do you do with 9 ? play in 1♦+3 with 3N cold or do you have another strong bid ?

[nige1]

el mister, on 2014-October-11, 04:01, said:

MP club game, fav vuln, pard opens a multi 2♦ in first seat, passed to you. Your hand: ♥xx ♦QTxxxxx ♣Jxxx
Anything to say?
[multi is weak 2M, strong acol 2 in the minors, or massive balanced]

Pass = 10, 2♥ = 7. There's a low probability that partner has a balanced mountain but it's worth the risk at MPs. If partner has a strong minor-suited hand, then opponents probably have a good major contract. If, as is most likely, partner has a weak 2 in ♠s, then passing may cause confusion, although 2♥ gives less information.

[1eyedjack]

nige1, on 2014-October-13, 20:43, said:

There's a low probability that partner has a strong balanced

That is contrary to my instinct. Anyone care to come up with some Bayesian numbers for this? Hard to factor in RHO's pass, but that should elevate it.

I also passed, as noted above, but this despite my assessment that a strong bal was reasonably likely.

[el mister]

1eyedjack, on 2014-October-13, 22:02, said:

That is contrary to my instinct. Anyone care to come up with some Bayesian numbers for this? Hard to factor in RHO's pass, but that should elevate it.

I also passed, as noted above, but this despite my assessment that a strong bal was reasonably likely.

Don't understand that 1eyedjack - pard opens a multi, opp passes and it's reasonably likely that he's 24/25 balanced? That can't be right.

[the hog]

el mister, on 2014-October-14, 02:54, said:

Don't understand that 1eyedjack - pard opens a multi, opp passes and it's reasonably likely that he's 24/25 balanced? That can't be right.

Well it is far more likely than if the opp had doubled or bid something, isn't it?

[Cyberyeti]

the hog, on 2014-October-14, 04:24, said:

Well it is far more likely than if the opp had doubled or bid something, isn't it?

True, but I suspect it's still 5% or less. Had the balanced option been 19-20 as it is for quite a few people, it would be a lot more likely.

[helene_t]

The semiforcing with clubs may also be a real possibility. RHO could have a decent hand with both majors, in which case it is reasonable that he doesn't bid.