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How to introduce clubs

#1 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2014-October-07, 06:52

This is my hand:

J653
A3
7
KJ7632

Partner deals:

1*-(1)-1**-(1);
pass***-(2)-???

* 11-13 balanced or any 17+ (Swedish club)
** 8+ hcp, 4+ spades, might have longer minor if less than GF
*** 11-13 balanced, but could have made a support double

Partner did not alert 1, but ofcourse you can not use this information. What to bid? We have no clear agreements, but double would be takeout and you guess that 3 is forcing (or at least invitational). We use 2NT as artificial in some competetive sequences, but not sure how partner would interpret it here.

The scoring is MP, red vs white, if that's important.

Instead of 1 you could have bid 1NT, showing 5+ and 8+ hcp, denying a major suit unless GF.
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#2 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2014-October-07, 07:16

I am not sure what you are aiming at.
There are 2 issues

1) what to do when partner had alerted
2) what to do now since partner did not alert. .

1) I would pass. Too bad you have no way of showing such a hand. But given the bidding (including an alert) makes it likely that you have 2 spade losers to start with. So forcing with 3 will only get you to an probably unmakable game.
2) Pass. But it is unlikely to matter. Opponents seem to have a heart fit and are entitled to an adjusted score anyway.

View PostKungsgeten, on 2014-October-07, 06:52, said:

Instead of 1 you could have bid 1NT, showing 5+ and 8+ hcp, denying a major suit unless GF.

This agreement may be in the Polish tradition (MAFIA) but is nuts in competition.
When opponents compete naturally it is overwhelmingly likely that opener has 11-13 balanced and the battle is more likely to be for the part-score.
When opener has the strong variant you find out anyway.
You have nice ways to force and show strong hands opposite 11-13 balanced, but you handicap yourself competing with limited hands containing a major and a (longer) minor.
On pure frequency grounds your priorities are wrongly set.

Rainer Herrmann
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#3 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-October-07, 07:18

The situation is quite complicated, not only for itself but because there are a lot of undiscussed things.

I would try 3. Pard can (should?) reason you had stronger bids with a genuine GF hand.
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#4 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2014-October-07, 10:21

I think this is a typical Lebensohl (or Good/Bad 2NT) situation: Partner has shown a well defined balanced hand, they interfere at the two level. If Lebensohl doesn't apply here then when does it apply?

I think that 2NT is a logical alternative (if not the only logical alternative). The UI (lack of alert of 1) has made 2NT less attractive. The action that you chose (pass) is a lot safer since it will not lead to misunderstandings in the auction.

If there is damage, I would rule against you. (Don't take it personally. ;) I like your posts.)

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
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#5 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2014-October-08, 04:56

View PostTrinidad, on 2014-October-07, 10:21, said:

The action that you chose (pass) is a lot safer since it will not lead to misunderstandings in the auction.


Actually I chose to bid 2NT, which partner raised to 3NT. I went one down (I explained before the lead that 1 showed spades) which gave us 100%; a top. Most of the pairs on their side played 4 making. I would too rule against us since my unalerted heart bid made it hard for them to find hearts, but as it was the director were not called to the table.
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#6 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2014-October-08, 05:04

View PostKungsgeten, on 2014-October-08, 04:56, said:

Actually I chose to bid 2NT, which partner raised to 3NT.

Excellent. I misunderstood that you passed. My fault entirely.

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
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#7 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2014-October-08, 10:47

No matter what I think of the system this hand has
plenty of juice to bid

3c

no matter game forcing or invitational (2n unless
artificial seems hopeless since it wrong sides any
NT contract).

Using the information and your system p has at most
2 spades and 4 hearts so that leaves at least 7 cards in
the minors.

That means p will almost always have 4+ clubs and
your side is a monster favorite for 6 clubs and 1 heart
p would need to contribute a dia stop and maybe the spade
T for 3n to have some play and that is if p is minimum.

It is not always about HCP sometimes you just have to try and
count tricks.
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