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Gib algorithm bugs Gib fails in both defense and play

#1 User is offline   0 luca 

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Posted 2014-September-29, 09:58

I rent gib from client version. İt failed in obvious contrAct . It didnt take the finnessed Trick and contract was down .
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#2 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2014-September-29, 12:59

Please submit a post to the GIB Robot Discussion forum, and include the specific details.

Note that the version of GIB in the download client is several versions older than the version used by the web client. This mostly affects bidding, but there are side effects on declarer play, because its simulations are based on hands that are consistent with the bidding.

#3 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-September-29, 13:03

Since we got so little specific information, I'm gonna guess that this was the hand, played shortly before OP's post was made:

GIB's play is actually worse than OP states... after the spade lead and clearing the hearts, Declarer should be able to count 4 spades, 5 hearts, 1 diamond and 2 clubs for 12 tricks. No finesses (other than the one given at Trick 1) are necessary. South should not throw winning spades from dummy as he draws trumps.
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Posted 2014-September-29, 14:37

View PostBbradley62, on 2014-September-29, 13:03, said:

Since we got so little specific information, I'm gonna guess that this was the hand, played shortly before OP's post was made:

GIB's play is actually worse than OP states... after the spade lead and clearing the hearts, Declarer should be able to count 4 spades, 5 hearts, 1 diamond and 2 clubs for 12 tricks. No finesses (other than the one given at Trick 1) are necessary. South should not throw winning spades from dummy as he draws trumps.

this is %percent innocent compared with the mentioned case. if u can sort my hands according to score unfortunately I m not able to , doubled point is 100 or 200 according to vulnerebality.i strongly recommend you to review it . you will laugh a lot.
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Posted 2014-September-29, 14:38

View Post0 luca, on 2014-September-29, 14:37, said:

this is %percent innocent compared with the mentioned case. if u can sort my hands according to score unfortunately I m not able to , doubled point is 100 or 200 according to vulnerebality.i strongly recommend you to review it . you will laugh a lot.

contract is equal or a above 5
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#6 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-September-29, 14:47

I'm still hunting... I see this one which is the same theme as the one above...

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Posted 2014-September-29, 15:04

View PostBbradley62, on 2014-September-29, 14:47, said:

I'm still hunting... I see this one which is the same theme as the one above...


yes this was.ruffing finessed hearts Q and at last don't use spades q as a trick.i also found it by copying web page into excel and filtering it.
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#8 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-September-29, 15:05

ok... I've gone through the 1860 hands you've played in the past week, and the one in post #6 above is the only one where your GIB partner is doubled at or above the 5 level and down exactly one. If the hand was played in an Instant Tournament, I don't think the results make it to the publicly-accessible hand records. If you can be more exact about when you played the hand, and/or the exact contract, I can look again.
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#9 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-September-29, 15:07

View Post0 luca, on 2014-September-29, 15:04, said:

yes this was.ruffing finessed hearts Q and at last don't use spades q as a trick.i also found it by copying web page into excel and filtering it.

It's probably a language barrier issue, but the word "finesse" does not belong in this conversation at all... simply discard J on your winning Q on Trick 2, or later discard it on Q.
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Posted 2014-September-29, 15:08

View PostBbradley62, on 2014-September-29, 15:05, said:

ok... I've gone through the 1860 hands you've played in the past week, and the one in post #6 above is the only one where your GIB partner is doubled at or above the 5 level and down exactly one. If the hand was played in an Instant Tournament, I don't think the results make it to the publicly-accessible hand records. If you can be more exact about when you played the hand, and/or the exact contract, I can look again.

You found it and I said ok.
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Posted 2014-September-29, 15:13

View PostBbradley62, on 2014-September-29, 15:07, said:

No need for any finesse at all... how about simply throwing J on your winning Q on Trick 2?

i tried to state the same . count as 1 .at end tricks it didn't use spades q to throw diamonds j again . i lost myself then :)
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Posted 2014-September-29, 15:18

View PostBbradley62, on 2014-September-29, 15:07, said:

It's probably a language barrier issue, but the word "finesse" does not belong in this conversation at all... simply discard J on your winning Q on Trick 2, or later discard it on Q.

another issue when I rent gib from client and use it in ipad which gib version am I using ?Client or web or mobile?
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#13 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2014-September-29, 16:45

I would specify that you were using "mobile app" "on an iPad". This I assume uses the same BBO server based GIB as the web based app. As opposed to the older download windows client which runs GIB as on local PC.

In any case, if you want better GIB play you had better use the "advanced" robots, the more expensive $1/day ones. The first hand BBradley pulled to me is the classic limitation of double-dummy based algorithm; from DD point of view you don't have to take 100% spade pitch, since guessing which minor suit finesse to take (or squeeze East if neither finesse works) is also 100% DD, so it has no reason *not* to play a spade on a heart, did so randomly, and eventually traps itself into having to guess the minor suit position. Supposedly the advanced bot should avoid these kind of things, having a true single-dummy engine kicking in after some number of tricks. The cheap ones are lobotomized for speed and taking up less server resources, and don't use the single-dummy algorithm.

The second one appears to me an instance of where the bidding perhaps convinces GIB that East *has* to have DK for the 2h bid for some reason, and thus views the finesse as also 100% compared to just cash the SQ, since maybe all hands in its sample East has DK. This goes to a long standing complaint that GIB should be more flexible about the hands it gives the opps in its sample, not being too strict about the opps having their bids, since maybe the superior play will emerge if you move to a more relaxed constraint on the sample generated.
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