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How do you play this double?

#1 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2014-September-07, 09:02


In case it matters, our 1 includes all 11-13 and 17-19 balanced hands.

What's double?
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#2 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-September-07, 09:39

Penalties, very likely a balanced 17 often with 4 spades and not 4 hearts, also could be 5/4 and a 16 count
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#3 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2014-September-07, 17:30

Three options come to mind -
1) 17-19 Balanced,
2) Takeout of
3) Any hand with 3 cards that wants to compete.

I like 1).
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#4 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2014-September-07, 17:43

View PostSteveMoe, on 2014-September-07, 17:30, said:

Three options come to mind -
1) 17-19 Balanced,
2) Takeout of
3) Any hand with 3 cards that wants to compete.

I like 1).

1) is kind of what I assumed first, but then I thought about it and ... isn't 3) a lot more common?
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#5 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2014-September-07, 18:18

I mean, say East has 10 points, South has 6 and West has 8. Complicated mathematical deduction will lead to the conclusion that North does not have 17-19.

Even if everyone is subminimum or bluffing, we might have 17-19, but then we might still have 3 or 4 hearts.
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#6 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2014-September-08, 01:35

Penalty. He is on lead, he may hold the hands you guys already mentioned as well as he may have doubled with running clubs. Keep in mind most people bid 1 NT without caring much about stoppers in opener's minor. But even if he has a stopper pd may have the rest + sure entries.
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#7 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-September-08, 03:27

You could compromise and play it as support + extras. That would make it easier for partner to convert it when it is right.
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#8 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2014-September-08, 05:20

1C-(P)-1H-(1NT)
Here we have in our system that DBL is support.
The given auction is undefined, but I would also assume support.
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#9 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-September-08, 05:36

View Postkgr, on 2014-September-08, 05:20, said:

1C-(P)-1H-(1NT)
Here we have in our system that DBL is support.
The given auction is undefined, but I would also assume support.

Do you have the auction 1 - (1) - X - (1NT); X in your file?
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#10 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2014-September-08, 05:51

View PostZelandakh, on 2014-September-08, 05:36, said:

Do you have the auction 1 - (1) - X - (1NT); X in your file?

Only that when 4th hand over calls a natural 1NT then DBL is support. System doesn't contain anything about 2nd hand also did bid in this case. But I assume it is still support.
Note: if 1NT is 2-suiter then DBL is penalty oriented.
Edit: verified with partner. He agrees it is still support.
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#11 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2014-September-11, 20:56

View Postmgoetze, on 2014-September-07, 17:43, said:

1) is kind of what I assumed first, but then I thought about it and ... isn't 3) a lot more common?


Yep.
This auction causes 2 metas to collide - opener's double as 17 -19 and as support. Perhaps the then the default should be higher frequency occasions (support).
With no agreement I suspect 1) is "safer" - more likely to be on partner's mind and more likely to win a post mortem. :rolleyes:
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#12 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2014-September-12, 01:03

View PostZelandakh, on 2014-September-08, 05:36, said:

Do you have the auction 1 - (1) - X - (1NT); X in your file?

There is a big difference between 1-1-Dbl and 1-1-Dbl. On the first auction responder will have exactly four spades, on the second responder will have 4 or more hearts. That means that 1-1-Dbl-1NT-Dbl should be support since responder can easily have 5 or more hearts. The interesting question is what 1-1-Dbl-1NT-Dbl would mean. I would say that it is a hand that doesn't want to sell out to 2: close to a 3145 pattern and not ashamed of having opened.

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#13 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-September-12, 01:22

With 3145 I think you can pass (or bid 2cl with good clubs) and then bid 2s in the rebound. 2245 is more difficult but maybe 2d is weakish because a real reverse would have doubled. I think playing this double as t/o caters to a narrow set of hands so I prefer penalty.
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