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ATB

#21 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2014-September-04, 17:06

View Postmike777, on 2014-September-04, 15:06, said:

1nt is close but really biding 2s was fine, a minimum but fine.

Given that 2s is constructive, you are never going to stop short of slam.

As many others have suggested much prefer 3h and take the risk that we are preempted out of rkc.

Of course opening 2c here in the forums with this hand type is forbotten.

2 was NOT constructive. It is a normal 2 bid but, because of the fact that opener can open very light, it has a higher than usual upper range. A limit raise is at least 13 HCP.

I agree with the 1 opening. 2 is silly.
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#22 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-September-04, 18:08

View Postrmnka447, on 2014-September-04, 13:48, said:

I'm looking at a 5-5 3 loser hand. So I'm opening the hand 2 .

With my favorite partner, our auction would proceed as follows:

2

Big hand no more than 4 losers if a major or 3 losers if a minor.

...... 2

Waiting bid.

2

5+ s no more than 4 losers.

...... 2 NT

Forward going 7- 20 HCP (We play very disciplined raises. A raise to game 4 is a signoff. A raise to 3 shows 7+ AND at least either Hxx or xxxx in the trump suit. Without either of those raises, we simply force with 2 NT.)

3

...... 4

4+ s since opener promises no more than 4 at this point.

4 NT (1430 for )

...... 5 (1 KC)

5 (Queen ask)

...... 5 NT ( I have it, no K)

6


Given the actual auction, I blame North for driving to slam without planning to show the suit. If South held something like xxx xxx QJxx Axx, the slam still wouldn't make even if s came home. With one A missing, slam depends on bringing in the suit without a loser. That's something North can never know about without introducing s at some point. After a 3 help suit game try and 1430 after South's return to , would 5 be an ask for help? (5 would be the Q ask.)

BTW, I would bid 2 with the South hand. Pairs that play 2 constructive would have an advantage on this hand. They'd probably bid 1 NT Forcing with South's hand and opener could make a 3 jump shift. That would get the pair on the right track.


You forgot that this is not a bidding challenge but that there is an E-W pair playing against you. Your 2C auction would not be as smooth as you think.
I would bid 3H with the Nth hand. We might get to 6, but it would not worry me if we did not.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#23 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-September-05, 01:51

View Postaguahombre, on 2014-September-04, 14:59, said:

u/u is a thing responder does. Are you suggesting u/u by a raised Opener would be a useful extension?


If I'd agreed u/u with a semi-regular partner, I'd assume something like it would be on here, much as if I'd agreed 'UCBs' I'd assume responder as well as advancer can make them.
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#24 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-September-08, 08:42

View Postrmnka447, on 2014-September-04, 13:48, said:

With my favorite partner, our auction would proceed as follows:

2 Big hand no more than 4 losers if a major or 3 losers if a minor.
...... 2 Waiting bid.

West now bids 4NT. Over to you - East will continue 5 if sufficient.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#25 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-September-08, 09:56

View PostZelandakh, on 2014-September-08, 08:42, said:

West now bids 4NT. Over to you - East will continue 5 if sufficient.

This shouldn't be a problem. Now that we have been taught that U/U can be used by the opening bidder ---

2C (P) 2D 4N
? we can pull out both the 5C and the 5D cards to show our Major 2-suiter.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#26 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2014-September-08, 11:53

The blame here goes to North for jumping to RKCB rather than bidding a probing and forcing 3. A few posts here state that responder's 2 was constructive, but not everyone playing 2/1 plays constructive raises and Art specifically stated that he doesn't.
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#27 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-September-08, 16:18

View Postaguahombre, on 2014-September-08, 09:56, said:

This shouldn't be a problem. Now that we have been taught that U/U can be used by the opening bidder ---


Whence this sarcasm? If you think it's a bad idea in the original auction, could you say why, and what use you'd prefer?
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#28 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-September-08, 20:13

View PostJinksy, on 2014-September-08, 16:18, said:

Whence this sarcasm? If you think it's a bad idea in the original auction, could you say why, and what use you'd prefer?

1) no upside versus just bidding the hearts.
2) It gives the opponents tools.
3) Bidding a Minor could be used for Control bidding.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#29 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-September-09, 02:55

View PostTWO4BRIDGE, on 2014-September-04, 11:12, said:

Playing 2/1 .... a 2S bid is 8, 9 hcp exact .

Bidding 1NTF with this 7 hcp hand ( 9 LTC ) is not too far-fetched ...probably borderline with the A x doubleton .

Wow - I thought the contructive 8-10 raise (including a point or two for the doubleton) was narrow.

2 is such a versatile response. It would be a shame to restrict it to such a narrow set of hands.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#30 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-September-09, 04:30

View Postaguahombre, on 2014-September-08, 20:13, said:

1) no upside versus just bidding the hearts.


It would show a stronger distributional rather than just min distributional hand, like UCBs. Take away the black kings from the OP north, for eg, and I'd still like to be able to bid 3Hs for competitive reasons (especially if I were playing 4cMs).

Quote

2) It gives the opponents tools.
3) Bidding a Minor could be used for Control bidding.


True, but the same could be said of UCBs.

I don't mean to insist that it's a good agreement, but you seem to be claiming it's obviously ludicrous, which requires stronger arguments than you've given, IMO.

Letting opener use it has the benefit of consistency - until this conversation it's honestly how I had always assumed we were playing after conversations agreement UoverU with irregular Ps, and I would guess many of them assumed the same.
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#31 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-September-09, 06:02

O.K. We also have been known to extend a concept to situations where others might not.

Warning, however: to assume without discussion that a convention for responder is also used by Opener when there is no hint in any published material that is the case...is disaster-prone.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#32 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-September-09, 06:10

Thinking in the kenrexford box, it might make sense for 5 to be slammy with either major and 5 to show both majors. Over 5 Responder could relay with 5 for Opener's major. A bi-product of this would be to solve rmnka's problem on the actual hand.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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