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3N Slam Killer

#1 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2014-September-01, 09:08

3N bid hand

1-2-2(listed as 16-22 pts)-Gib bids 3N listed as 11-18 hcp

with 16 or more pts shouldn't Gib investigate slam? And 11-18 hcp is way too wide a range for a jump to 3N opposite a hand showing extras.
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#2 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-September-01, 09:17

I presume (hope) this means that 2N instead of 3N would have been 19+HCP. I agree with Steve that the dividing line should be lowered. His suggestion is from 18vs19 to 15vs16, although I'd suggest even lower.
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#3 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2014-September-01, 11:10

These are poor methods in my opinion and are not commonly used in 2/1. After 1D-2C, 2M should not be a reverse, simply a natural call showing the suit. Or else what do you do with AQxx, xxx, KJxx, Kx?

And yes, certainly those NT ranges need to be narrowed. One other point, it is widely, but not universally, agreed that Fast Arrival does not apply to NT bids, i. e., the more you bid the more you have.
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#4 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-September-01, 12:40

It is all the more important that opener's 2M rebid does not show reversing values, given that a 2N rebid by opener shows a balanced 11-14 range hand and is non-forcing. In practice GIB invariably passes 2N if the initial 2C was based on less than GF. Thus, as opener, with 14 points there is no way that I want to risk 2N being passed, so I temporise with 2M. This obviously has some dangers if partner is going to assume 16+ for the bid.

The problem with this is that the NF 2N rebid is a broken part of the system which needs fixing, and using 2M as a work-around is hardly "fixing" the 2N rebid.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

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#5 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2014-September-01, 13:45

I ran club suit thru SuitPlay and it gave about 65% chance of 5 or more winners, so is good slam.

I agree with Jack. you should be able to bid 2M with 14+, 2 is not a reverse although I has an disagreement with an expert on bridgewinners who insisted it was.

At imps, I would be willing to play 2M as 12+ just showing stoppers and only going past 3m would show extra values. Course this will never happen as Gib uses same system for imps as MP. so were stuck with 2N being 12-14 NF but I think 11-13 NF better with 14 should usually be in game.

Im not particular what NT bid ranges should mean but they should in most cases be 3 pt ranges
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#6 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-September-01, 14:09

View Poststeve2005, on 2014-September-01, 13:45, said:

Im not particular what NT bid ranges should mean but they should in most cases be 3 pt ranges


Most players consider a 3 point range quite wide enough for a 1NT opener or 1NT rebid, and still devote sequences for responder show an invitational hand.

If you require an invitational sequence opposite a 3 point range 1NT bid, how do you then show an invitational sequence opposite a 2N bid? Hint - opposite a max you want to be in 3N, and opposite a min you want to be in, err, 2N.

Of course, if the NT bid is GF, there is no particular problem with a 3 point range, indeed it could be widened.

(Incidentally, before any computer geek or math nerd chips in with "a 3 point range contains 4 points because the difference between the max and min is then 3, yada yada yada", *MY* definition of a 3 point range is one that contains 3 possible point counts).





Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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