BBO Discussion Forums: No Gambling - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

No Gambling void xxx AKQxxxx xxx

Poll: What do you open (30 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you open in standard?

  1. Pass (1 votes [3.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.33%

  2. 1D (2 votes [6.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

  3. 2D (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 3D (2 votes [6.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

  5. 3NT (ok I'll allow gambling here) (19 votes [63.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 63.33%

  6. 4D (2 votes [6.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

  7. 5D (4 votes [13.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

  8. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

In context of system described in OP?

  1. Pass (1 votes [3.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.33%

  2. 1D (0+) (7 votes [23.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.33%

  3. 3D (6 votes [20.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  4. 4D (8 votes [26.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.67%

  5. 5D (6 votes [20.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  6. Abstain (why are we playing this stupid system) (2 votes [6.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

  7. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   manudude03 

  • - - A AKQJT9876543
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,610
  • Joined: 2007-October-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2014-August-28, 18:39



1st seat favorable, MPs scoring.

I'll split this into 2 polls, one for standard methods, and one for the system in use.

For better or worse (mostly worse), we were playing a strong club system without the precision 2C opening, so 1D would have to cater for all opening club hands as well as the diamond hands (2D opening is multi, this hand wouldn't cover either option). 3NT would have been a specific ace ask. With all that in mind, what do you open?
Wayne Somerville
0

#2 User is offline   TylerE 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,760
  • Joined: 2006-January-30

Posted 2014-August-28, 19:49

3 to both and I don't think it's close.

Yes, it's probably going to go 4 next but I'm feeling a lot better about whatever partner does (including pass!) if I open 3 rather than 1.
0

#3 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2014-August-29, 03:09

Textbook gambling 3NT. Not playing that I think I'll stretch it and bid 4. Reasons are:

1. Pard won't be expecting such good a suit, so even if 3NT is there, he's likely to misevaluate if I open 3 and not bid it. But if I open 4, he might go to 5 with some cards.. this might not happen if I open 3.

2. If stuff gets competitive, I'll be glad I opened 4, not 3.
1

#4 User is offline   Zelandakh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,666
  • Joined: 2006-May-18
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2014-August-29, 05:49

View Postwhereagles, on 2014-August-29, 03:09, said:

Textbook gambling 3NT.

How can a hand with a void be textbook for a call that denies an ace or void? It is a reasonable Gambling 3NT but by no means textbook.

The problem with 3 on a hand like this within the context of the OP system is that we are typically already stretching this for hands that might have opened a weak 2 in a standard set-up. If we stretch both on the bottom end and the top then it makes it even harder on partner than usual for wide-ranging preempts. This is one reason I would prefer to be playing 3NT as a good 4m preempt than a spcecifc ace ask within this context. It allows us to remove some of these hands from the top end without giving up on 3NT too often.

Given the above and the favourable vulnerability I prefer 5 to 3 but 4 is probably the value call. This is essentially the choice you make for giving up both 2 and 3NT for other purposes.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
0

#5 User is offline   gordontd 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,485
  • Joined: 2009-July-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 2014-August-29, 06:12

View PostZelandakh, on 2014-August-29, 05:49, said:

How can a hand with a void be textbook for a call that denies an ace or void? It is a reasonable Gambling 3NT but by no means textbook.

Depends which textbooks you read.
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
1

#6 User is offline   gordontd 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,485
  • Joined: 2009-July-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 2014-August-29, 06:13

Duplicate
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
0

#7 User is offline   Zelandakh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,666
  • Joined: 2006-May-18
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2014-August-29, 08:00

View Postgordontd, on 2014-August-29, 06:12, said:

Depends which textbooks you read.

Indeed, the original Gambling 3NT is something quite different with side suit requirements beyond no irst round control. So it would not surprise me in the least if there was a library of textbooks without that requirement - but it is still the most common version for a "pick-up textbook".
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
0

#8 User is offline   TylerE 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,760
  • Joined: 2006-January-30

Posted 2014-August-29, 08:13

At the very least every textbook I've ever read specifys an AKQJ suit for gambling 3N is holding only 7. Missing the jack you're going to have problems running it often enough to be annoying, even assuming you're not off 5 off the top.

PS: In context of the system, I don't think straining to open 3 with crap is right. Opening 3 on bad hands might work against bad opponents but I don't think it's an effective long term treatment.
0

#9 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2014-August-29, 08:23

View PostZelandakh, on 2014-August-29, 05:49, said:

1. How can a hand with a void be textbook for a call that denies an ace or void? It is a reasonable Gambling 3NT but by no means textbook.

2. (...) I would prefer to be playing 3NT as a good 4m preempt (...) 3. It allows us to remove some of these hands from the top end without giving up on 3NT too often.


1. Everybody (even textbook authors... lol) opens AKQxxxx with 3NT. And, as you probably know from experience, most even do it with side ace/king, despite their CC saying otherwise :)

2. I once ran a sim on that. Odds for AKQ 7th and out are about the same as those for a classical 4m.

3. Not that it will happen too often lol.
0

#10 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2014-August-29, 09:18

4D at this vul, not playing a gambling 3NT and it is not close.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0

#11 User is offline   gszes 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,653
  • Joined: 2011-February-12

Posted 2014-August-29, 10:32

Bidding game too important so trotting out the ole gambling 3n here (a bid I hate
but feel compelled to use anyway since most of the time the tactical considerations
are less important then being able to bid game).

W/O the ability to bid 3n gambling, 4d seems best. Since 3n would have been unlikely
to be reached anyway (over a 3d bid) we might as well go for the maximum preempt w/o
losing 4h (or ackk 4s) as a final contract.
0

#12 User is offline   foobar 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 469
  • Joined: 2003-June-20
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2014-August-29, 12:48

My preference would be to bid 4 regardless of the methods. It's barely possible that 3N will get passed out and unless pard can withstand 3N-X, we are likely to end up there anyway.

[Edit]
Missed the NV vs. vul. first time around. Changing vote to 5 to exert maximum pressure.
0

#13 User is offline   billw55 

  • enigmatic
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,757
  • Joined: 2009-July-31
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2014-August-29, 13:27

If this hand falls within my agreement for a gambling 3NT, I bid that.

If not, I will try 5. Favorable makes me feisty.
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
-gwnn
0

#14 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2014-August-30, 06:43

When playing Gambling 3NT, you open 3NT, that's a no brainer imo.

When not playing Gambling in a strong system, I prefer to open with a limited opening. Partner won't get too excited, but if he has values our solid suit will compensate for the lack of power in our hand. I don't like to go past 3NT immediately with such hands, and I think this hand is way too strong for a favorable 3 opening.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#15 User is offline   Siegmund 

  • Alchemist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,764
  • Joined: 2004-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Beside a little lake in northwestern Montana
  • Interests:Creator of the 'grbbridge' LaTeX typesetting package.

Posted 2014-August-30, 10:42

Surprised at all the votes for 3D and 4D. If I am not playing Gambling, you can put me down for 5D-and-its-not-close, at favorable. The void is a flaw but it would not stop me from 3NT if I am playing Gambling (or from 5D).

Funny that there are now 'not-close" votes for so many different openings.
0

#16 User is offline   PhantomSac 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,488
  • Joined: 2006-March-23
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2014-August-31, 11:13

5D is really wild, not my cup of tea though ofc it could work. I would be deciding between 1D and 4D.
The artist formerly known as jlall
0

#17 User is online   sfi 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,576
  • Joined: 2009-May-18
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2014-August-31, 17:10

View PostTylerE, on 2014-August-29, 08:13, said:

At the very least every textbook I've ever read specifys an AKQJ suit for gambling 3N is holding only 7. Missing the jack you're going to have problems running it often enough to be annoying, even assuming you're not off 5 off the top.


That's not really true. You only need a 3-2 break to run the suit, so the odds are in your favour. If partner passes with a void they had best be able to conjure up 9 tricks on their own.
0

#18 User is offline   manudude03 

  • - - A AKQJT9876543
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,610
  • Joined: 2007-October-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2014-September-01, 10:37

Thanks for the replies. I decided to open 1D. Partner has somewhere in the region of AJT9x AQx J AKQx, and had the everyday auction of 1D-(1S)-P-(P)-2D-(P)-6NT, just making when partner took "insurance" by giving up a spade. Diamonds were 3-2.
Wayne Somerville
0

#19 User is offline   manudude03 

  • - - A AKQJT9876543
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,610
  • Joined: 2007-October-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2014-September-01, 10:37

Thanks for the replies. I decided to open 1D. Partner has somewhere in the region of AJT9x AQx J AKQx, and had the everyday auction of 1D-(1S)-P-(P)-2D-(P)-6NT, just making when partner took "insurance" by giving up a spade. Diamonds were 3-2.
Wayne Somerville
0

#20 User is offline   Lord Molyb 

  • Slightly less bad player
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 964
  • Joined: 2012-October-16
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:Bridge

Posted 2014-September-01, 19:06

View Postmanudude03, on 2014-September-01, 10:37, said:

Thanks for the replies. I decided to open 1D. Partner has somewhere in the region of AJT9x AQx J AKQx, and had the everyday auction of 1D-(1S)-P-(P)-2D-(P)-6NT, just making when partner took "insurance" by giving up a spade. Diamonds were 3-2.

conveniently, gambling 3NT will get you to the cold 6 100% of the time and avoid the questionable 7 at the same time. I think with this hand, opening 1 was ok.
Become yourself.
0

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users