[lamford]

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A simple auction against which West led the jack of hearts to East's king. What do you do now?

[eagles123]

I have a couple of thoughts
1 - hope spades are 3-3 and take the double finesse in clubs?
2 - duck a diamond and if they both follow when they return a heart, duck another diamond and pray that they're 3-3 - hope to get a couple of diamonds couple of hearts 4 spades and a club (losing 2 hearts and 2 diamonds)?

[lamford]

eagles123, on 2014-August-18, 06:31, said:

I have a couple of thoughts
1 - hope spades are 3-3 and take the double finesse in clubs?
2 - duck a diamond and if they both follow when they return a heart, duck another diamond and pray that they're 3-3 - hope to get a couple of diamonds couple of hearts 4 spades and a club (losing 2 hearts and 2 diamonds)?

I think you are putting too many eggs in two baskets. Is there a way to do better?

[rkowalick]

My guess is

Spoiler

You will make it if E doesn't hold both missing ♣ honors by taking a double finesse through E.

Not sure what else to try, as getting set in ♥ seems likely.

[Antrax]

Do note that to double finesse one needs to double get to dummy, and it would appear the only suit to allow such is KQxx opposite AJx.

[rkowalick]

My strategy is completely bogus. Time to put back on the thinking cap.

[broze]

Perhaps I am missing something - this doesn't look like a N/B problem to me, but I would run four rounds of spades and pitch a diamond if opps pitch a club, pitch a club if they pitch a diamond or a heart and then play on the suit I didn't pitch.

I'm not exactly sure why but running spades and seeing what happens seems like the natural thing to do on the deal.

[Antrax]

I keep waiting for rhm to pitch in and say the correct line is cash ♥AQ, four rounds of spades, heart and watch the discards.

[nige1]

Lamford asks

"A simple auction against which West led the jack of hearts to East's king. What do you do now?"

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Spoiler

Thank you Paul, for an interesting problem with an unusual theme.
After winning the opening lead, try advancing ♠J. LHO should give correct count (in case RHO has ♠A). Hence, if LHO signals an odd number of ♠, then you might risk overtaking with ♠Q to take 2 ♣ finesses.
If LHO signals an even number, then you should cash 4 rounds of ♠ and take the ♣ finesse, succeeding immediately if RHO has both ♣ honours or has come down to a doubleton ♣ honour.
If defenders can set up only 2 cashable red suit winners, then you have an extra chance: lead a third ♣, hoping that RHO has a tripleton ♣ honour or 4 small ♣.

[broze]

nige1, on 2014-August-20, 11:04, said:

<snip>

A good reason why in certain cases it is good technique to play the middle card from 3 when giving partner count when he will not need to know the full count until the second round of the suit.

[lamford]

Indeed leading the jack of spades is the best line. West will surely give count, and if he seems to have four or two, then lead the jack of clubs. If he is expert, you may have to guess. You will still, of course, succeed by force if West has Hxx or Hx in clubs, as long as they cannot cash five tricks. And it costs nothing, as leading the jack of clubs immediately is equally good against two perfect defenders.

[StevenG]

lamford, on 2014-August-20, 15:26, said:

Indeed leading the jack of spades is the best line. West will surely give count

Do you play club bridge?

[lamford]

StevenG, on 2014-August-20, 15:31, said:

Do you play club bridge?

I do, and most of the intermediates at our club will manage to give count when there is an entry-less dummy. I accept that this should not have been in the novice and beginner forum.

[nate_m]

lamford, on 2014-August-20, 15:26, said:

Indeed leading the jack of spades is the best line. West will surely give count, and if he seems to have four or two, then lead the jack of clubs. If he is expert, you may have to guess. You will still, of course, succeed by force if West has Hxx or Hx in clubs, as long as they cannot cash five tricks. And it costs nothing, as leading the jack of clubs immediately is equally good against two perfect defenders.

It is not even close to true that the jack of clubs is equally good against perfect defenders.

Consider W 4423 with one club honor. Running 4 rounds of spades immediately is successful.

If you try the jack of clubs, E can win and shift to a diamond. If you win it, they take 3 diamonds 2 clubs, if you duck it, they shift back to hearts, taking a diamond, 2 hearts, and 2 clubs.

There are a host of totally routine hands where it is necessary to run spades before touching clubs.

Anyway, I think all are on the same page that this is far too advanced for the N/B forum.

[lamford]

nate_m, on 2014-August-21, 01:34, said:

It is not even close to true that the jack of clubs is equally good against perfect defenders.

Consider W 4423 with one club honor. Running 4 rounds of spades immediately is successful.

If you try the jack of clubs, E can win and shift to a diamond. If you win it, they take 3 diamonds 2 clubs, if you duck it, they shift back to hearts, taking a diamond, 2 hearts, and 2 clubs.

There are a host of totally routine hands where it is necessary to run spades before touching clubs.

Anyway, I think all are on the same page that this is far too advanced for the N/B forum.

I agree. The original hand analysis recommended leading the jack of clubs immediately, and I thought leading the jack of spades was better. I think it is correct against most players to overtake if West shows an odd number. And I also think they will continue hearts in practice. Strengthen the diamond pips to give South the ten, and it is even clearer. But I also think it is unsuitable for N/B. I might change it slightly and put it on the expert section!