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Redouble trouble reverse by opener

#1 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2014-July-23, 01:33

1-(x)-xx-(1);
?

What hands bid 2 in this position? What's the difference between bidding 2, vs. passing, and pulling partner's double to 2?

Are there hands that bid 1nt, or pass then pull to 1nt? What do they show?

What's a delayed pull of double to 2?
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-July-23, 04:44

Traditionally, pass is forcing and pass-and-pull is stronger than a direct bid. So a direct 2 would be a minimum with 6 clubs while a delayed 2 would be stronger.

Balanced hands normally pass and respect partner's penalty double, but maybe a balanced 12-count with a small doubleton spades would bid a delayed 1NT. A direct 1NT obviously can't be natural without something in spades, so maybe it should be a minimum 1(43)5 or 0445.

And maybe a direct 2 is a minimum with 56, while a delayed 2 is a normal reverse?
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#3 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-July-23, 04:55

View PostStephen Tu, on 2014-July-23, 01:33, said:

1-(x)-xx-(1);
?

1. What hands bid 2 in this position?
2. What's the difference between bidding 2, vs. passing, and pulling partner's double to 2?
3. Are there hands that bid 1nt, or pass then pull to 1nt? What do they show?
4. What's a delayed pull of double to 2?


1. Probably a 6-5. To be honest, I've never seen that auction.

2. No idea. But I wouldn't be surprised to see it done on, say, 1435, 1426 or hands with spade voids.

3. 1NT should show a balanced 12-14 as usual. Pass + 1NT is probably the same. While there might be a theoretical difference between the two, in practice I don't think it's a good idea to draw undiscussed inferences at this stage. Just assume the very same 12-14. People bid differently with the same hands.

4. Just about the same as a direct one. Possibly opener was expecting opps to pull to another suit which he could double?
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#4 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-July-23, 05:33

Bid as normal. P says nothing to say, 2h is a reverse, 1nt shows a very good 13-14, just below a 1nt opening, x is penalties.
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#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-July-23, 05:33

An immediate 2 is weak and distributional with pass and pull showing a stronger hand. An immediate 1NT effectively does not exist without discussion and the idea of using it as a weak hand unwilling to sit a double without a convenient call seems as good as anything. Without discussion the delayed 1NT presumably shows a big balanced hand that thinks it can score better declaring than defending - but does such a hand exist? I quite like the idea of using the delayed 1NT as a game forcing 0445 too.
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#6 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-July-23, 08:04

View PostZelandakh, on 2014-July-23, 05:33, said:

An immediate 2 is weak and distributional with pass and pull showing a stronger hand. An immediate 1NT effectively does not exist without discussion and the idea of using it as a weak hand unwilling to sit a double without a convenient call seems as good as anything. Without discussion the delayed 1NT presumably shows a big balanced hand that thinks it can score better declaring than defending - but does such a hand exist? I quite like the idea of using the delayed 1NT as a game forcing 0445 too.



weak and distributional? So you bid 2h in a possible non fit auction? Distributional? 5/6? This is illogical as with a weak, 11/12 hand and 6c and 5h I think that most bridge players would open the Major.
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#7 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-July-23, 08:55

View Postthe hog, on 2014-July-23, 08:04, said:

This is illogical as with a weak, 11/12 hand and 6c and 5h I think that most bridge players would open the Major.

To me it is illogical upon hearing partner say "I would like a chance to penalise them unless you are weak and distributional" to then make a bid with a balanced hand perfectly suited to defence. Clearly we view this situation fundamentally differently but as far as I know the bulk of the (traditional) literature would support passing with the hand that you want to rebid 1NT on. It seems to me that when playing a rebid system that does not cater to penalising them we may as well forego the strength-showing redouble too and use that extra space to start showing our shape - and this indeed is the direction that much of the non-traditional literature is moving in.
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#8 User is offline   Lorne50 

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Posted 2014-July-24, 14:44

View PostStephen Tu, on 2014-July-23, 01:33, said:

1-(x)-xx-(1);
?

What hands bid 2 in this position? What's the difference between bidding 2, vs. passing, and pulling partner's double to 2?

Are there hands that bid 1nt, or pass then pull to 1nt? What do they show?

What's a delayed pull of double to 2?

2 = weak with 5-6 shape
pass and pull to 2 = strong 5-6 shape
1N could be anything but 5-5 minors seems a good idea
pass and pull to 2 = strong with long clubs.
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