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2/1 - 2H or 1NT

#1 User is offline   SimonFa 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 03:53

MPs, R v W, 2/1 with 100% forcing 1NT. Partner is Jack.

AQ8 KT842 J643 A

(p) 1S (p) ?

I tried 2H but when I ran Jack it suggested 1NT on the basis that the Hearts weren't good enough.

I suspect that there is no right answer but as 1NT is 100% forcing there is no danger of being passed out, but it doesn't get across the strength of the hand and I would worry about trying to play catch up if a slam is on.

I was wondering what the more experienced would have done in this position?

As always, thanks in advance.

Simon
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 04:29

Absolutely clear cut 2H response. You want pd to give decent evaluation to hx in H, don't you?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#3 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 05:55

You can show a game-forcing hand with 3 card support at the 3-level or the 4-level. Offhand, which would you think is better?
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#4 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 05:59

Hi,

unless I miscounted, you have 14HCP,maybe downgrade whatever you want, but
will you ever convince partner that you have 5 hearts and an opening bid,
when you start with 1NT?

Simple answer is No.

Of course if you do samples, that it may become clear, that for this specific
hand downgrading works, this is to complicate for me.

If you happen to play 2C as GF, bal. or 3 card spade support, than selling the
hand as bal. is certainly a sensible approach.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#5 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 07:36

Fit makes the hand a GF. I think I can afford to act accordingly.
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#6 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 07:39

let's just say the program was a tad short-sighted vis-à-vis the bidding
after the 1n choice. There are very few ways to really come close to describing
this hand after using 1n vs 2h. Most of the bidding will be jumps to 4s playing
catch up and the minimum hand for that is something like 13 count 3334. This
hand has an extra source of tricks with a 5 card heart suit and the singleton
club can also be an extremely valuable asset for slam purposes.

I normally have zero problems using jacoby 2n with 3 card support and I would
bid 2h with this hand playing 2/1. In an ideal world having the AQ of spades
and the AQJ of hearts for a 2h bid sounds pleasant enough but utility is also
a factor. We will see very few hands with such a miraculous concentration of values
so it might be best overall to tailor our bidding to the much greater majority
of hands where game and possibly slam are available.

Opener would have a tendency to view the QJ doubleton of hearts with a jaundiced
eye for slam purposes unless (the hog) we start the proceedings with 2h and the
QJ suddenly have opener jumping for joy.
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#7 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 08:25

View Postwhereagles, on 2014-July-21, 07:36, said:

Fit makes the hand a GF. I think I can afford to act accordingly.

Would you really bid 1NT with
A
KT9xx
Jxxx
AQx?
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#8 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 14:15

excuse me?
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#9 User is offline   SimonFa 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 14:28

Thanks for your thoughts, they've been quite reassuring. I've checked Professor Jack's settings and can't find anything untoward so I'll take this as a quirk of playing with a CPU and not being able to have discussions.
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#10 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 15:45

View Postwhereagles, on 2014-July-21, 14:15, said:

excuse me?

If the fit makes it a GF, it means that without a fit but the same honours it is not a GF. If it is a GF with or without a fit, why mention the fit?
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#11 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 17:00

I swear I saw 11 H the first time.. lol.

Anyway, GF in both cases of course.
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#12 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 18:20

An easy 2 bid. Yeah, you'd like to see better hearts, but you have a GF hand.

Consider if partner holds something like KJxxx AQx Ax xxx. You have about a laydown 6 with 14 opposite 14. So showing your suit may be important whenever a 2 suited fit is present. After 1 - 2 - 3 - 3 , slam starts to come into view with room to show controls.
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#13 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 21:48

Me thinketh that Prof Jack has been smoking the crack!

Of course you GF right away with a 5 card suit and 14 HCP.
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#14 User is offline   aikya 

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Posted 2014-July-21, 23:25

I DO PLAY 2 N.T jACOBY WITH 3 CARDS SUPPORT,
HERE AT LEAST GIVE THE true pts OPENING HAND AND SUPPORT PARTNER MUST UNDERSTAND SITUATION.
I AM NOT FOR THE I NT * forcing here.
Because does not guaranteed absolute fit..and BIG LIE ON THE PTS HAND.MAXIMUM 11 PTS ...
Aikya
Armand
Email me
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#15 User is offline   somajigoma 

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Posted 2014-July-22, 00:47

14 HCP with support or without support the only one bid is 2Heart.Whoever thinks of any other bid is clearly a novice.
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#16 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-July-22, 02:35

On the contrary: newbies follow recipes closely. The ones that study at least, lol.
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#17 User is offline   Trump Echo 

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Posted 2014-July-22, 05:00

2
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#18 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2014-July-22, 08:14

TWO HEART and nothing else.
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#19 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2014-July-22, 14:00

2H Clear Cut. Some other points - Stick with 4+ card support for J2NT, you won't regret it. As to what to rebid next time, 3S any time it is possible. Jump to 4S should show no 1st or second round control in suits you have not bid, e.g. AJx, AKxxx, xx, Qxx
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#20 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2014-July-22, 17:33

It's a computer, most computers aren't very good a bidding.
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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