[ahydra]

STW = Spot the Wimp:

---

(IMPs)

ahydra

[eagles123]

south!

[whereagles]

North! (pass za dbl)

[silvr bull]

North would bid 3♥ with xxx xxxx xx xxxx, so he must do something better with his good supporting hand. I would try 3NT with the North hand.

[ArtK78]

I agree with everything that has been said so far that everyone underbid or misbid. Still, it is a difficult problem.

If South is merely protecting, then 3♥ is plenty with the North hand. But if South has a full values for his takeout double, North should bid game or pass 3♦x.

If South has a distributional double, then passing 3♦x may not score well (assuming that you beat it - if you don't, it definitely will not score well).

So, NS has to have their guessing shoes on to get this one right.

[the hog]

South's x might be light and protective.I would pass the Nth hand. South cannot bid more after the 3H bid. Nth could have absolute rubbish.

[MrAce]

I can't blame south tbh

I would probably bid 3 NT by N. I am sure it plays as good as 3 he

[P_Marlowe]

South.

Or the partnership has a disagreement, since in the end it comes down,
how weak the reopening X could be.

As South I would have bid 3NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cyberyeti]

P_Marlowe, on 2014-July-21, 01:58, said:

South.

Or the partnership has a disagreement, since in the end it comes down,
how weak the reopening X could be.

As South I would have bid 3NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

I'd have also bid 3N as S to avoid this kind of problem, but I'd be doubling on a 4315 hand weaker than most people.

That said I'd have passed the double and hoped we were taking 300/500 if we weren't making game and 800 if we were (or 100 if partner has a poor 4315 and we were making nothing).

[mcphee]

I feel either N or S might have been bidding 3N. I feel the lack of any source of tricks as S makes dble a little superior to bidding 3N. N on the other hand has no real excuse even though S could be weaker K104th in D argue for trying 3N.

[gszes]

STW=NORTH
AT IMPS 3n stands out for more than just one reason---
the hand will be played virtually double dummy so even
if p has something like a 14 count we should have pretty
good chances for game with all of those intermediates since
east is far more likely than west to hold defensive assets
and we would know which player is more likely, by far, to
be the target for a squeeze/endplay/finesse.

AT IMPS
3n = 9 pass = 6 4h=3 3h = 1

At MP a much stronger case can be made for merely passing and not
worrying (so much) about possibly missing a vul game. No matter
the form of scoring 3h rates to be a non starter at best and even
a disaster.

Asking south to bid 3n either directly over 3d or over 3h is reckless and
shows no confidence in their partner's ability to evaluate their own hand.

AT MP
3n = 9 pass = 8 4h = 4 3h = 1

[ggwhiz]

North

I won't criticize pass, 3nt or 4♥ if they don't pan out but 3♥ is NOWHERE.

Pre-empts work.... especially if you roll over to them.

[chasetb]

North, for not having the guts to pass the double.

While the South hand is nice, I can't see bidding 3NT on Aces and spaces. If partner can't show me a good hand after X , I don't want to be in game either.

[mikeh]

I have empathy for both N-S. I know we aren't supposed to say that 'pre-empts work', but they do and this is an example.

They tend not to work as well against experts precisely because experts have 'been there' enough times that they have learned how to resolve these issues with a high rate of reasonable success...they recognize that there is no 'right' answer and that all actions have risks.

Here, my guess is that most experts would pass as North.

Why? Process of elimination.

We lack the trick source to bid 3N, especially when we can reasonably expect short diamonds in dummy and hence possibly a relatively minimal reopening double. It isn't that we assume a weak dummy, but we can infer that if dummy is weak(ish) 3N won't likely make and yet 3♦ will still usually fail. When in doubt, place partner with the equivalent of Axxx Axxx x Axxx.

3♥ can be from utter weakness, and so we will miss too many games. In addition, if we can make +140 or +170, we have a decent shot at +300. Finally, we may be in the embarrassing position of failing in 3♥ with a decent plus available: picture AJxx Jxx x AJxxx with a 5-1 heart break.

4♥ is clearly too much

Pass: yes, they may make it but it is extremely unlikely. While I have as much or more abhorrence for doubling making partials into games as most and more than many, the truth is, as Eric Kokish once said (paraphrasing), if they aren't making some doubled partials, you aren't doubling enough.

There is one other possible reason for bidding 3♥ and that is when partner has a huge hand, unsuited for any action other than an initial double. We may miss slam and collect 300-500 in exchange. However, those hands are rare, and they truly do represent the meaning of 'pre-empts work'.

As for South, he had 2 ugly decisions. I empathize with the initial double: I think the hand is not quite right for 3N, especially since it seems probable, this being in the I/A forum, that the partnership lacked methods over 3N.

However, I think that he ought to have raised. One rule I learned, a long time ago, is that when one doubles a pre-empt, and partner makes a non-jump response, play him or her for some hcp...typically about 6-7. Once in a while you catch a horrible hand and go for a number, but partner is far more likely to hold 'some' values than 'no values', and the diamond A is a big card since it controls the likely tap suit on the initial lead.

It is possible to argue that he ought to bid 3N over 3♥, to show a flexible hand with only 3 hearts, but I think that isn't the sort of call one should inflict on a I/A partner in the middle of a hand

[neilkaz]

chasetb, on 2014-July-21, 11:04, said:

North, for not having the guts to pass the double.

While the South hand is nice, I can't see bidding 3NT on Aces and spaces. If partner can't show me a good hand after X , I don't want to be in game either.

We agree.

[PhilKing]

If you don't think partner is bright enough to work out that double followed by 3NT shows this hand, then you should overcall 3NT in the first place.

Both players erred imo.