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Why Gib partner don't help me?

#1 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2014-July-14, 18:51



my first double promise 4-card ,but I have to make second double after 3,why Gib partner don't help me - bid 4-card in its own hand with minimun and void in ?
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#2 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2014-July-14, 21:36

It's an interesting call. Your second double is basically penalty. I guess GIB thought its hand is more suitable for defense than offense. I'm not a good enough player to know, it looks like it could go either way.
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#3 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2014-July-14, 23:01

After 3,I can't do anything even with 14hcp unless double.
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#4 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2014-July-14, 23:13

You could bid 4 and lose 3NT. Not saying GIB's system is perfect. However, double seems okay - it shows roughly what you have (defensive hand, fairly balanced, some trump length), and I'm not sure GIB W was wrong to pass the double is my point.
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#5 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-July-15, 11:19

The double shows "biddable spades" which is presumably a longer and better spade suit than you have. So it is not so surprising that W passes it.

So basically you are in the same situation as if you were playing with a dinosaur who defined almost all doubles as penalty. I think your second double is ok, though. It's not clear which game you can make, and 3 probably goes down.
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#6 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2014-July-15, 20:18

with just a cursory glance 6 is cold. [edit] looking at it later 7 is pretty easy on obvious lead [/edit]

Gib should know/simulate its way to seeing that partner with 4 is gonna score more in 4 than 3X. All those will often be worthless on defense and partner's are likely not going to be worth much more. Hands are very flat and its still better to bid on as it usually is when you have an undisclosed fit.

In fact, if I was lycier's partner he wouldn't have had to make what in Gib's definition is a penalty double cause I would already have bid 4!
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#7 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2014-July-16, 12:47

I am certainly on Lycier's side here. That the description of the second double would include "biddable spades" is ridiculous nonsense. Double is the only sensible action, and pass by W should not be a consideration.
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#8 User is offline   cloa513 

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Posted 2014-July-16, 17:59

View Poststeve2005, on 2014-July-15, 20:18, said:

with just a cursory glance 6 is cold. [edit] looking at it later 7 is pretty easy on obvious lead [/edit]

Gib should know/simulate its way to seeing that partner with 4 is gonna score more in 4 than 3X. All those will often be worthless on defense and partner's are likely not going to be worth much more. Hands are very flat and its still better to bid on as it usually is when you have an undisclosed fit.

In fact, if I was lycier's partner he wouldn't have had to make what in Gib's definition is a penalty double cause I would already have bid 4!

7 makes with any lead- just need to ruff 2 spades in dummy- J is a godsend to save from a 4-1 hearts break.
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#9 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2014-July-16, 21:22

iandayre, so what should double here be? Try to answer in GIB's terms, so "DSIP" doesn't fit.
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-July-17, 01:57

Double "should", IMO, be:
2-3 spades without a spade stopper (maybe we should allow a singleton? Four small spades is possible but very unlikely)
4 hearts
2-3 diamonds (maybe we should allow 4?)
3-4 (5?) clubs
11+ HCPs
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#11 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2014-July-17, 02:05

I concur. And opposite that, holding GIB W's hand, do you bid 4 or pass at all vul?
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#12 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-July-17, 02:20

4. But I would have bid that in the previous round.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#13 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2014-July-17, 12:50

I have been a fan of Helene ever since she quoted one of my comments in her footer for a while, and nothing has changed. Her description of the second double is quite reasonable, and no call other than 4H by West would occur to me.
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