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Seems like 3♠ from a limited opener should guarantee a suit, not just a control. Opener's points are limited but he can have a range of shapes so IMO it's consistent to first bid 3♠ showing shape and later bid 4♥ even with a club control to say your shape isn't that exciting.
May a limited hand deny a control?
#22
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Posted 2014-July-14, 14:39
If you don't play serious and lttc with a limit plus response and no space, then you just about have to be natural, whether suits, shortness, or both via relay. I agree.
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#23
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Posted 2014-July-17, 08:57
rhm, on 2014-July-14, 06:37, said:
And how do you bid:
East will attach more value to this hand in the auction than to the one actually held, at least I would.
Assign the blame for reaching a poor slam
Of course East can not take any blame since all his bids were "mandatory" and his 1♥ opening limited him.
The notion "Do your control bids as requested and the right contract wii be reached" is a bit naive.
It does a reasonable job telling you whether the required controls are present. It does not follow you have 12 tricks.
Rainer Herrmann
East will attach more value to this hand in the auction than to the one actually held, at least I would.
Assign the blame for reaching a poor slam
Of course East can not take any blame since all his bids were "mandatory" and his 1♥ opening limited him.
The notion "Do your control bids as requested and the right contract wii be reached" is a bit naive.
It does a reasonable job telling you whether the required controls are present. It does not follow you have 12 tricks.
Rainer Herrmann
There are many more joint partnership hand patterns than bidding sequences available to describe them. Not convinced we need to assign fault for every poor result. It does seem like too few articles are written on negative features. Jxx(or worst) in a side suit is not conducive to manufacturing tricks. There is no easy way to identify critical jacks and tens.
This board contains two suits which have negative features. Jxx in spades is a negative known to West. AKxx opposite x in diamonds is duplication of values. This duplication is not known to either partner during the auction. If the ♦K were replaced by the ♠Q(♠QJx and ♦Axxx), 6♥ would be nearly unbeatable.
#24
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Posted 2014-July-21, 04:06
It seems like this problem would have been easier if you had a way to explicitly show a four card raise. Obviously I don't know your system, but it seems like that is where the auction ran into problems, as nobody knew if the heart Q is important. If it had started off 1h 2c 2N showing 4+ hearts limit + you would have been better placed.
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#25
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Posted 2014-July-28, 06:34
As has been pointed out the two solutions are to split raises by 3 card versus 4+ and for 3♠ to show a hand good enough for game but enough to push for slam (Frivolous). Responder can then ask for controls where they need them via 3NT(for ♠) or 4m. Even with both of these in place you are still only getting some of the way there to being able to bid this one with confidence.
(-: Zel :-)