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Is Acol Still Played in the United Kingdom?

#1 User is offline   spencecat 

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Posted 2014-July-01, 19:06

Hello,

I am new to this forum, and had one question to ask players who play bridge in the United Kingdom. When I played bridge in Southwest Florida, my bridge teacher told me that Acol, a British system, was being phased out in favor of SAYC. Yet I had another player tell me that Acol is still played in the UK. Is this true or not?

Thanks,

Spencer
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#2 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2014-July-01, 20:58

View Postspencecat, on 2014-July-01, 19:06, said:

I am new to this forum, and had one question to ask players who play bridge in the United Kingdom. When I played bridge in Southwest Florida, my bridge teacher told me that Acol, a British system, was being phased out in favor of SAYC. Yet I had another player tell me that Acol is still played in the UK. Is this true or not?
Welcome to the forum, SpenceCat. S J Simon regarded Acol as an attitude of mind rather than a system. In my experience, most British Bridge-teachers teach Acol, in one form or another. (Strong twos have mostly been superseded by Benjamin or Multi/Lucas). Few employ SAYC but 2/1 is gaining converts.
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#3 User is offline   spencecat 

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Posted 2014-July-01, 23:37

Many thanks for clarifying this. I am American, so I know little regarding Acol. I do know that Bridge is slightly different in the United Kingdom and in Europe- it seems to be, in some regards, more regulated than the US (as in the restriction on notrump overcalls) but also less regulated (as in the Multi, which is not allowed except in a few high-level tournaments.)
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#4 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 01:14

Here in the north of England it is extremely rare to find
a pair that doesn't play acol. Maybe 5% or so play five card majors but except for international experts even they retain acol logic for the rest of the auction so only the opening bid is non-acol.

2/1 enjoys some popularity among strong players in the south but even there acol is what most club players play.

SAYC doesn't exist in the uk I think at least I have never heard of it. I know a few pairs who play acol with 5cm and strong nt and call it sayc, though

As for restrictions: there are a few very bizare things that are banned in some places. For example a 2h opening that shows a weak hand with hearts or spades can only be played in top events and in a few countries. England is somewhat more restrictive and for example does not allow artificial 1of a major openings in most events. But no countries have restrictions on responses except for novice events in England. So we are definitely more liberal over here
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#5 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 02:25

Many British players who play online have a passing familiarity with SAYC, through necessity rather than desire. Most of the players in the Acol Club on BBO (http://acolatbbo.org.uk/) are British although anyone and everyone who plays some form of Acol is welcome.
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#6 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 02:46

Acol is still played in various bits of Europe, although Dutch Acol is quite different to the British form. I played a congress in Pula a couple of years ago where the only Acol pair we played were Czech.

5 card majors or 5 card spade are increasing, but in our local competitions we have one polish club pair, one playing some swedish system, one playing culbertson and everybody else plays some form of Acol, mainly weak NT 4 card majors but by no means all.
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#7 User is offline   Oof Arted 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 03:37

:rolleyes:

There are I am glad to say still quite a lot of us 'Dinasours' who play 'Old Fashioned' Acol :D

As for Sick And Yellow Colour Yuk the very thought makes me want to Throw up ;)
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#8 User is offline   spencecat 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 08:02

I remember reading a book by Ron Klinger(who happens to be Australian, but is part of the commonwealth nonetheless). He used Acol. I guess some Commonwealth countries use it too. If I ever play bridge abroad, it is best that I get acquainted with the governing laws of the country in question, as well as the most common bidding system in that country. Sometimes the laws and play are virtually identical to the US (as in Canada), other times they are quite different (as in the United Kingdom.) Poland is the most fascinating- many players there play a weak and strong combined club, called Wspolny Jezyk (Polish Club, to non-Polish speakers.) I think that system is by far my favorite. I will have to find an online bridge partner from Poland so we can play the same system.
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#9 User is offline   spencecat 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 08:14

When I said "favorite system", I meant thay Polish Club was interesting,not necessarily my favorite. From what I hear, non-Polish players do not enjoy it, probably because it is so byzantine.
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#10 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 08:23

View Postspencecat, on 2014-July-02, 08:14, said:

When I said "favorite system", I meant thay Polish Club was interesting,not necessarily my favorite. From what I hear, non-Polish players do not enjoy it, probably because it is so byzantine.


The tournament I mentioned in Pula, about half the people we played were playing Polish club (most of the rest were playing something much closer to standard American or 2/1), it seems to be pretty popular across Eastern Europe.
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#11 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 08:47

View Postspencecat, on 2014-July-02, 08:14, said:

When I said "favorite system", I meant thay Polish Club was interesting,not necessarily my favorite. From what I hear, non-Polish players do not enjoy it, probably because it is so byzantine.

One of my former partners, who is English, learned to speak Polish because she wanted to start playing the system. It was closest generic system available to what we were playing together, which admittedly was itself fairly labyrinthine. But to say that non-Polish players do not enjoy it is far from the truth.

As for Acol, outside of London still completely dominant in the UK. When you move up to expert circles that changes of course but SAYC is played at those levels even less than Acol. Outside of the UK, Acol also has followings in Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Holland, Germany and the Far East - probably some others too.
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#12 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 08:52

View Postspencecat, on 2014-July-01, 23:37, said:

Many thanks for clarifying this. I am American, so I know little regarding Acol. I do know that Bridge is slightly different in the United Kingdom and in Europe- it seems to be, in some regards, more regulated than the US (as in the restriction on notrump overcalls) but also less regulated (as in the Multi, which is not allowed except in a few high-level tournaments.)


I know of no instance in which UK system regulations are more restrictive than ACBL.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#13 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 09:49

View PostVampyr, on 2014-July-02, 08:52, said:

I know of no instance in which UK system regulations are more restrictive than ACBL.

I wonder if he's confusing the level of detail in the EBU regulations with the number of restrictions. The GCC fits on one piece of paper, so it might appear that we aren't very restrictive. But appearances can be deceiving. Since anything that isn't natural or explicitly allowed is prohibited, we disallow quite a bit.

#14 User is offline   spencecat 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 10:51

View Postbarmar, on 2014-July-02, 09:49, said:

I wonder if he's confusing the level of detail in the EBU regulations with the number of restrictions. The GCC fits on one piece of paper, so it might appear that we aren't very restrictive. But appearances can be deceiving. Since anything that isn't natural or explicitly allowed is prohibited, we disallow quite a bit.



Yes, that is correct. I was not asking about the level of detail regarding restrictions, but rather the level of restriction in Europe as opposed to the United States and Canada (ACBL regulations). I definitely know that tournaments in the US and Canada are rather restrictive with regards to some systems. In fact, from what I hear, Multi-Landy (which I like better than Cappelletti) is banned in ACBL regulations, as the 2 overcall must show a suit.
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#15 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 14:15

The only people I've ever seen playing SA in f2f bridge in England have been Americans. The top pairs generally play a sophisticated form of Acol or, more commonly, one of some sort of 2/1, Polish Club (or other similarish systems such as Carrot Club) or some form of Strong Club. But most people who play something called '2/1' don't stick to what might be called 'US Standard', there are usually a lot of gadgets.

p.s. on system regulation - what Vampyr said. The only place in the world I know that is at least as restrictive as the US is Japan. Most places in Europe are somewhere between more liberal and very much more liberal (e.g. Sweden).
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#16 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 18:46

View PostFrancesHinden, on 2014-July-02, 14:15, said:

The only people I've ever seen playing SA in f2f bridge in England have been Americans.


I have seen people who say they are playing Standard American, but they have generally just incorporated a strong NT and 5-card majors into an Acol-style approach.
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#17 User is offline   akwoo 

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Posted 2014-July-02, 19:24

View PostVampyr, on 2014-July-02, 18:46, said:

I have seen people who say they are playing Standard American, but they have generally just incorporated a strong NT and 5-card majors into an Acol-style approach.


Actually, a lot of weaker US players (especially for casual non-competitive, non-duplicate games) also say they are playing Standard American but are playing Acol with 5 card majors and strong NT.
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#18 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2014-July-03, 01:01

View Postakwoo, on 2014-July-02, 19:24, said:

Actually, a lot of weaker US players (especially for casual non-competitive, non-duplicate games) also say they are playing Standard American but are playing Acol with 5 card majors and strong NT.

Coincidently a few weaker UK players also say that are playing Acol when they are playing 5-card majors and strong no-trump, most frequently when they are playing Benjy twos. As nige1 said, Acol is often regarded as an attitude rather than a system.
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#19 User is offline   WellSpyder 

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Posted 2014-July-03, 02:06

View PostVampyr, on 2014-July-02, 18:46, said:

I have seen people who say they are playing Standard American, but they have generally just incorporated a strong NT and 5-card majors into an Acol-style approach.


View Postakwoo, on 2014-July-02, 19:24, said:

Actually, a lot of weaker US players (especially for casual non-competitive, non-duplicate games) also say they are playing Standard American but are playing Acol with 5 card majors and strong NT.

What are the key differences between SA and "Acol" with 5M and strong NT?
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#20 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2014-July-03, 02:10

View PostWellSpyder, on 2014-July-03, 02:06, said:

What are the key differences between SA and "Acol" with 5M and strong NT?


The former uses a technique known as "forcing bids".
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