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Who can show extras to find 6NT

#1 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2014-June-01, 01:19

EDITED: opening was 2H and not 2S!!!

We missed 6NT.
We play Lebensohl, so 2NT followed by 3NT by East would show 4cH and not extras.
Who should have done more?:
- West: bid 4NT quantitative after East's 3NT
- East: bid quantitative (2NT followed by 4NT ; I think that a direct 4NT would be for the minors)
- No-one: Preempts work
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#2 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2014-June-01, 02:00

[Original reply deleted as it was based on opening of 2S]
How weak can West be for the double? He would probably double with eg KJxx x AJxx Kxxx, and the given hand looks a couple of tricks stronger. If East thinks he might have a shot at 3NT opposite a minimum double, then a 4NT try looks warranted by West.
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#3 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2014-June-01, 02:48

I play with one partner that 2NT+3NT is stronger than direct 3NT, but you seem to have other agreements.

Most people think west has the extras, I play a sound overcall style and I think extras are in east's hand rather. It still gets to a 32 HCP slam with an offside queen that might go down on a club lead.
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#4 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2014-June-01, 03:16

View PostFluffy, on 2014-June-01, 02:48, said:

I play with one partner that 2NT+3NT is stronger than direct 3NT, but you seem to have other agreements.

Most people think west has the extras, I play a sound overcall style and I think extras are in east's hand rather. It still gets to a 32 HCP slam with an offside queen that might go down on a club lead.


West has 18 hcp, did you miscount? If this isn't serious extras, you really aren't doubling enough.

In my view, West has an easy 4NT bid.
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-June-01, 04:09

View PostFluffy, on 2014-June-01, 02:48, said:

I play with one partner that 2NT+3NT is stronger than direct 3NT, but you seem to have other agreements.

Most people think west has the extras, I play a sound overcall style and I think extras are in east's hand rather. It still gets to a 32 HCP slam with an offside queen that might go down on a club lead.

I don't understand. On a club lead into East's QX you have your 12th trick; on any other lead, you can immediately establish a 12th trick in hearts.
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#6 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2014-June-01, 06:26

West just has a normal 4NT bid imo
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#7 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2014-June-01, 06:37

yeah I counted 17
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-June-01, 08:01

View Postbroze, on 2014-June-01, 06:26, said:

West just has a normal 4NT bid imo


Agreed.

And yes you have 12 tricks from either side on any lead barring diamonds 5-0.
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#9 User is offline   perko90 

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Posted 2014-June-01, 21:43

Yup, West should bid 4NT.
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#10 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2014-June-02, 14:57

West should bid 4 NT. It's an 18 count. Partner who has chosen to play 3 NT opposite what could be a distributional 12 or 13. The 18 count includes giving full value to the ♥ J. Some might discount it, but opposite partner's ♥ stopper, it can be a useful card.
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#11 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-June-03, 04:40

Quantitative 4NT by west seems to be the obvious bid here.

3NT is heavy, but seems normal. Now, west having a blazing 18 instead of a more common 12-14 is definitely unexpected.
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#12 User is offline   razorsharp 

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Posted 2014-June-03, 06:06

"Logically" I play 3NT is the stronger way to game, ie 15-16. 2NT then 3NT is weaker, like 11+ - 14. Ergo, West should bid 6NT/3NT straight away.

Razorsharp
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#13 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-June-03, 07:27

View Postrazorsharp, on 2014-June-03, 06:06, said:

"Logically" I play 3NT is the stronger way to game, ie 15-16. 2NT then 3NT is weaker, like 11+ - 14. Ergo, West should bid 6NT/3NT straight away.

That is nice for you but not particularly relevant to:

View Postkgr, on 2014-June-01, 01:19, said:

We play Lebensohl, so 2NT followed by 3NT by East would show 4cH and not extras.

You might like to consider the problem for your own system with the ♦Q and ♦J exchanged.
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#14 User is offline   ShirleyMqz 

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Posted 2014-June-03, 20:44

View PostFluffy, on 2014-June-01, 02:48, said:

It still gets to a 32 HCP slam with an offside queen that might go down on a club lead.


Not true. With East playing the hand it's utterly cold so long as diamonds don't break 5-0.

You have 11 tricks on top. A lead of either round suit immediately establishes a 12th trick. If they lead a diamond or a spade you have time to establish a second trick in hearts.
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#15 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-June-03, 21:20

View PostShirleyMqz, on 2014-June-03, 20:44, said:

Not true. With East playing the hand it's utterly cold so long as diamonds don't break 5-0.

You have 11 tricks on top. A lead of either round suit immediately establishes a 12th trick. If they lead a diamond or a spade you have time to establish a second trick in hearts.

Agree...I think Gonzalo is having one of my senior moments here. But, it is also cold from the other side of the table, thanks to the club ten.
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