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Cue-bid in response to negative X

#1 User is offline   bd71 

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Posted 2014-April-23, 09:38

Partner and I had some confusion over a basic sequence last night.

1m (1) X (P)
3

I assumed this was asking about a NT stopper (bid 3N if you have it), he thought it was a splinter in support of .

Upon reflection, I realize that if partner wants to know if I have spades stopped, it's possible to get that through 2 which should elicit that from me if we allow that it's not automatically a strong heart raise.

But...questions for the collective wisdom of BBOF:

1. Does the splinter use of 3 sound right, are we missing anything?
2. Do we need to limit 2 to showing game-force heart support, or can it reasonably be used to find out about a stopper?
3. If 4th-seat had bid 2, I assume 3 is best played as asking about NT stopper...agreed?
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#2 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2014-April-23, 09:59

1) SPL sounds sensible because 2S can ask for the stop.
2) 2S could be any big hand - not necessarily game-forcing, though in this sequence it probably should be. One of the main uses is to find out about a spade stop, e.g. a 17 BAL (or 18, if playing 15-17 NT) that does not have one. Very big hands that are not two-suited e.g. 5431, 4441 might also bid 2S, but the primary focus is on finding a stop.
3) Agree.

On a side note what's with all the multiposts? This topic has two copies, another one in this forum has six!

ahydra
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#3 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2014-April-23, 17:00

To me
3 is splinter
2 is a gate to express one of a lot of strong hand types, including strong balanced hands without a stopper.

1 NT by opener does not warrant a stopper nor denies it. It shows the shape such as xxx Ax Kxxxx KQx. If you are not comfortable with this you may bid 2 or 2 but they have their own problems and if anyone thinks they are minor problems, I disagree with them. If you bid 1NT w/o a stopper you have plenty of room to investigate it if necessary.
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#4 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-April-24, 07:12

2 usually shows a non-descript GF hand (17+ or thereabouts).

3 is undiscussed in like 99.9% of partnerships. Usually undiscussed bids are natural, but here it doesn't make much sense. It is a somewhat irresponsible bid because many interpretations are possible, so if stuff goes wrong, perpetrator gets the blame and should be prepared for it.
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#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-April-24, 07:22

The most basic rule for a splinter is an unnecessary jump. Since 2 is forcing, 3 qualifies under this definition. Therefore I would assume 3 is a splinter without any further discussion. As it happens, it is also difficult to come up with a better meaning without getting into something impractically complex. As a challenge to whereagles, what are the "many interpretations" that would be reasonable for a normal pair without special agreements playing a natural bidding system?
(-: Zel :-)

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#6 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2014-April-24, 07:30

View Postwhereagles, on 2014-April-24, 07:12, said:

2 usually shows a non-descript GF hand (17+ or thereabouts).

3 is undiscussed in like 99.9% of partnerships. Usually undiscussed bids are natural, but here it doesn't make much sense. It is a somewhat irresponsible bid because many interpretations are possible, so if stuff goes wrong, perpetrator gets the blame and should be prepared for it.


1m--x = I was gonna bid 1 pd, now I can't bid it at 2 level because I don't have 5 of them or I don't have enough hcp to bid at 2 level or both.

3 is whatever it would be over 1. The reason that it is not discussed in %99.9 of the pdships,( if that number is correct, which I strongly believe you just pulled this percentage up from your **** btw) is probably because it is so obvious to everyone else but you.

EDIT: In fact I will go one step further and claim that, 3 can be something other than splinter ONLY IF DISCUSSED. When undiscussed it is splinter.
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#7 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-April-24, 08:22

View PostZelandakh, on 2014-April-24, 07:22, said:

what are the "many interpretations" that would be reasonable for a normal pair without special agreements playing a natural bidding system?


Well, I can think of:

1. Splinter in support of hearts
2. Auto splinter with 1-suiter in the opening minor
3. Stopper ask with solid minor
4. A very strong 2-suiter in the minors

I'm pretty sure the list is not exaustive. Obviously, people can always say "hand type XYZ can be bid via [fill-in], so it must be hand type W", but in practice a mix-up is very much possible. Which is why I would refrain from making bids like this (blame-transfer bids). It's not clear they're winning bids.. certain they are not healthy.
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