[straube]

After 1C P 1D we don't know whether responder has 0-4 or 10+ hcps. RHO interference can pose some challenges. I'm thinking that after RHO interferes with a 2-level bid and opener passes that responder's balance at the 2-level show a DN hand. A balancing bid of 2N when the opponents have bid 2D, 2H, or 2S would be Lebensohl showing a DN and a desire to compete. Same thing if it goes 1C P 1D (2H) dbl P 2N would be Lebensohl while 3m would be forcing and show a GF hand. The rule might be...when the opponents have the bid, if 2N can be Lebensohl, it is.

OTOH, if it goes 1C P 1D (1S) 2D P

probably any bid including 2N should be the GF hand. We've taken the bid already and if it isn't the best part score, I think trying to improve it costs too much. After all, responder doesn't have dbl available when opener has taken the bid so the GF hands are deprived quite a bit.


So if it goes

1C P 1D (2D) P P

dbl-GF other
2M-DN, 5+ major
2N-Lebensohl
3C-GF, 6+ clubs
3D-?
3M-GF, 6M

Lebensohl isn't that great against a 2D bid but has increasing importance against 2H and 2S bids.

Any suggestions?

[phoenix214]

Maybe you can work it like this: After 1C-1D, interference:
New suit: To play opposite weak hand, partners bid should be good weak hand or force game:
The example given above:
1C-1D-(1♠)-2♦:
3♦-good playing streinght, week hand
Im not too sure from IMprecsion notes, which hands are in 1♦, but if only the strong hands are balanced, then you can relay with +1(like normal?) and use other bids correspondingly naturally, if strong hands are possible then strong, if not then suit+support
In the 2nd situation
Maybe use transfers?
Like 1C-1D-(2♥)-2S weak
2NT clubs, weak of GF
3♣ - diamonds, weak of GF,
3♦ - strong, asks stopper(maybe stayman, depends on X)
Over transfers, responder assumes partner has the weak group and acts accordingly like usual

[straube]

phoenix214, on 2014-April-16, 16:31, said:

Im not too sure from IMprecsion notes, which hands are in 1♦, but if only the strong hands are balanced, then you can relay with +1(like normal?) and use other bids correspondingly naturally, if strong hands are possible then strong, if not then suit+support

1D can be roughly 9+ if balanced or 11+ if unbalanced.

Transfers are a good idea.

If RHO has the bid and responder is balancing...

dbl-GF other
2L suit-DN natural
2N-Lebensohl
3L suit-GF

If opener has doubled

2L suit-DN natural
2N Lebensohl
3L suit-GF
cue-other GF, choices

If opener has the bid

2L suit-DN natural
2N-artificial GF
raise-DN
3L suit-GF
cue-GF raise

This last would mean, however,that responder couldn't suggest to play 3C with a DN. Or if say 1C P 1D (2D) 2H P 3C were a DN, then when responder had a superpositive with clubs he'd have t resort to an artificial 2N.

[awm]

Sam and I decided that we didn't want to prioritize responder bidding his own suit at the three level with 0-4. This allows us much better auctions when responder has a balanced GF.

[phoenix214]

I think you can use X as balanced game-forcing and live happily with that. Although my question would be:
How do you play 1♣-(2♦) for example, assuming 2♦ shows diamonds

[straube]

awm, on 2014-April-17, 05:40, said:

Sam and I decided that we didn't want to prioritize responder bidding his own suit at the three level with 0-4. This allows us much better auctions when responder has a balanced GF.

That makes sense to me and my "rules" thus far prevent responder from doing so when opener has taken the bid.

But when opener passes 2D (for example) and responder wants to balance in clubs with a DN or when opener doubles 2D and responder wants to force with clubs or sign off in clubs, do you employ Lebensohl?

Maybe 2D isn't the best example, but say the bidding goes 1C P 1D (2S) dbl P

I'd like to be able to distinguish pd bidding 3H with x AKxx Axxxx xxx vs x xxxx xxxx xxxx. Or if responder has a shapely DN like x Qxxxxx Jxxx xx and wants to chance 4H he could use 2N (or some other mechanism) and then bid 4H.

[straube]

phoenix214, on 2014-April-17, 06:33, said:

I think you can use X as balanced game-forcing and live happily with that. Although my question would be:
How do you play 1♣-(2♦) for example, assuming 2♦ shows diamonds

P-various, trapping
dbl-takeout, 6+
2H-spades, 6+
2S-GF hearts
2N-GF
3C-GF
3D-6-7, long hearts
3H-6-7, long spades

I believe we borrowed this from Adam and Sieong.

[awm]

We use lebensohl in response to doubles, including the auction you gave. It's auctions like 1c-p-1d-(2s)-p-p-??? where we play 2nt natural and not lebensohl. This gives us more options on balanced GF (dbl or 2nt depending on holding in their suit) while removing our options to compete with garbage but a 6-card suit.

[awm]

straube, on 2014-April-17, 08:05, said:

P-various, trapping
dbl-takeout, 6+
2H-spades, 6+
2S-GF hearts
2N-GF
3C-GF
3D-6-7, long hearts
3H-6-7, long spades

I believe we borrowed this from Adam and Sieong.

We have changed this a little and use:

3d = hearts constructive but less than GF
3h = 5+/5+ majors constructive but not GF
3s = transfer to 3nt (bal GF anti positional)