[Quarky]

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Playing standard 2/1, opps passing.
You open 1♦, partner bids 1♥, your call. Relevant agreements are: opener's 2NT and 3♥ are passable; 2NT includes Wolff signoff/checkback; responder will bid 1x (such as 1♥ on this auction) with as little as 1 cover and nothing else.

1. What's your call?
2. General question that may or may not apply to this hand:
If an auction goes
1♦ - 1♥
3♥ - ?
What is 3NT in this position? Is it Serious NT or an offer to play 3NT?

[mike777]

4h

strong hand, no shortness.

btw this is an adjusted 4 loser hand.
I may miss slam.

[MrAce]

You are touching a very soft spot of 2/1.

It is a 4♥ bid. But we would like to bid 4♥ with a lot of totally different hand types also. So none of us are very happy with the 4♥ approach.

There are ways to go around it, but i will not type them because I am sure you will be overwhelmed pretty soon with all of them, as far as I know the tendencies of some of our members.

[Cyberyeti]

Some people use 4♦ as a big 2452 to solve this problem of a huge hand with no splinter to make.

[MrAce]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-April-08, 00:38, said:

Some people use 4♦ as a big 2452 to solve this problem of a huge hand with no splinter to make.

I like this. Because alternative use of 4♦ which is to show very good diamonds and 4 card fit with no outside controls is very rare, i am thinking of taking it out. Spent almost a life time, yet waiting it to come

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 4D, this showes a 5422 hand with good diamonds.

#2 If we have found a 8 card fit in a major, we play the major, hence 3NT would
serious / non serious, whatever, a slam move.
But you can of course play it as choice of games.

#3 A nice agreement is, to play 3NT in the sequence

1D - 1H
3NT -

as fit showing with a semibal. hand, in conjunction with #1 you have
a bid that puts less emphasis on the opened suit, and 3NT is now also
a choice of game bid.

The standard meaning was, that it showed 6+ in the opened suit and a singleton
in partners suit.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[whereagles]

Even if you bid

1D 1H
4D

as a big hand with fit + diamonds, pard is so low on controls that he'll be weary of driving to slam most of the time.

But it still seems the best solution to me. At least if he moves on, slam is bound to be a good one (for a change!! ).

[PhilKing]

Question 1: It's just a matter of sytem but my take is that you can put more hand types through a jump to 3♠. For one thing, the chances of having a spade splinter in this sequence are very low given the absence of any opposition bidding. So I would play:

3♠ = various. 3NT asks:
.....4♣ splinter, minimum
.....4♦ 2452 OK
.....♥ ♠ splinter
4♣ = huge splinter
4♦ = huge, 4-6
4♥ = 2452 huge (as in the hand we have)

The principle is that with minimum game raises, we keep our hand type campouflaged when responder does not have slam ambitions. To make it consistent, you could jig it around a bit, but be aware the spade splinter basically "never" occurs.

Question 2: if we raise to 3♥, we have limited our hand - responder has no need to differentiate good and bad slam tries. As a matter of theory, when one player has limited their hand serious/non-serious does not apply. I general terms you should play step one as asking for shortage in these sequences.

[rhm]

PhilKing, on 2014-April-08, 16:03, said:

The principle is that with minimum game raises, we keep our hand type campouflaged when responder does not have slam ambitions.

At the expense of allowing lead directing or at favorable vulnerability sacrifice oriented doubles.

Rainer Herrmann

[steve2005]

MrAce, on 2014-April-08, 01:39, said:

I like this. Because alternative use of 4♦ which is to show very good diamonds and 4 card fit with no outside controls is very rare, i am thinking of taking it out. Spent almost a life time, yet waiting it to come

I had it come up in the 1990's while I was playing it lol, none since

[MrAce]

steve2005, on 2014-April-09, 06:53, said:

I had it come up in the 1990's while I was playing it lol, none since

So I am not alone after all

[gwnn]

I like 4H to show something like this, although this is obviously on the strong side of it. I am not one of those "OMG! I have a singleton and 4-card support! 3♥!" people.

Playing Mexican 2♦ you can open 1♦ and rebid a Jacobian 2NT on hands like these.

[PhilG007]

I would bid 4♥ direct then leave it to partner to investigate
if a slam is on. For the present,all you can assume is that partner has 6+ pts
and 4 hearts. You should bid your own hand,not your partner's.

As to the 2nd question. The partnership has found a strong fit in hearts.
Why bother going into NTs,especially with the dodgy black suits(?)

[PhilKing]

To the 4♥ bidders, is partner supposed to move with:

♠xxxx
♥Kxxxxx
♦x
♣xx

??

Or look for grand with:

♠Kxxx
♥Kxxxxx
♦x
♣xx

If you don't have a way of showing a 2452 hand that is the nuts, and differentiate that from a more mundane 2452 18-19, you have no chance.

[Codo]

I am no 4 ♥ bidder, I can bid 2 NT to show various handtypes including this one, but if I was, I hope my partner mill make a slam move with the strong hands you showed over my 4 ♥.

[johnu]

Holding all 4 aces and a king, I would have upgraded to a 2NT opening bid.

[nige1]

Quarky, on 2014-April-07, 20:45, said:

Playing standard 2/1, opps passing. You open 1♦, partner bids 1♥, your call. Relevant agreements are: opener's 2NT and 3♥ are passable; 2NT includes Wolff signoff/checkback; responder will bid 1x (such as 1♥ on this auction) with as little as 1 cover and nothing else.
1. What's your call?
2. General question that may or may not apply to this hand:
If an auction goes
1♦ - 1♥
3♥ - ? What is 3NT in this position? Is it Serious NT or an offer to play 3NT?

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Just to keep MrAce happy IMO

• After 1♦ - 1♥ - ?: 4♦ = 10, 4♥ (normally a "pudding raise") = 8, pseudo-splinters = 7, 3♥ = 6, 2N = 5.
• After 1♦ - 1♥ -; 3♥ - ?: Some play that 3♠ = Serious try, 3N = Cue-bid in ♠