[awm]

I've noticed two different styles in playing relays after (semi)-natural openings. The first style is that of symmetric relay precision (for example) where there is some artificial response which is game forcing and starts relays. In the original version of the system this was usually 1NT. Other responses would generally guarantee less than game forcing values (possible exceptions with a well-fitting hand). In order to retain a natural, semi-forcing notrump response, some relay systems use 2C as the artificial game force instead (I believe Viking Club works this way at least in some version, and Ekeblad/Rubin's system seems to have this property as well).

The alternate approach is a two-way bid which could be the start of relays, but could also have other potential meanings. One example would be several of the italian systems, which use a 2C response showing either an artificial game force or a good (but non-GF) raise of opener's suit, or perhaps a single-suited invite in clubs. Another possibility would be to use 1NT as an ordinary "forcing notrump" showing any game force or a balanced/semi-balanced hand with moderate values (GF hands can start relays after opener's semi-natural rebid). I've also seen several people play methods where (for example) the 1H response to 1D is either natural with hearts, or any game forcing hand (opener's rebid is essentially natural assuming the "hearts" meaning, but responder has various relays available if holding the game forcing option).

Anyone here had experience with both approaches? Which do you think is better?

-- Adam

[Free]

Hi, welcome to the forum!

I'm a relay freak, so I have much experience in these situations. I play several systems which use relays.

MOSCITO
Transfer openings are used, so step 1 (bid in the opened Major) is relay, and shows inv+ strength. After that, you can ask the entire hand.
After 1♣ opening (here 15+) you can use whatever system you want. We use 1♦ as GF any except 5440, 1♠ double negative, and other bids are semipositive and show a general handtype. 2NT and higher are also GF hands, mostly 5440's.

My f2f system
This is also a strong ♣ system (15+), Majors are 5+ cards, and 1♦ is the garbage bid (any had without 5 card M).
Over 1♣ you can again use any system you like.
Over 1♦ we use 1♥ as "natural OR inv+ relay", like in Viking Club
Over 1M openings, we use 1NT as inv+ relay.

I think MOSCITO is soooooo well constructed, that it's superior over most systems. It rightsides the contract a lot of times (tnx to trf openings btw). The only disadvantage my f2f system has, is that it doesn't rightside Major-contracts as much.
However, both systems I play use inv+ relays, so no absolute GF! Imo it's the best approach (if I remember correct, it's not allowed in ACBL land ), since after the first rebid from opener, you usually have a pretty good idea of what kind of hand partner has, and you're usually able to break relays. During the time I've played these systems (about a year MOSCITO I think, a little less the f2f system), I actually NEVER had problems with the difference between GF hands and invitational hands.

[mr1303]

How do your relays work after a 1D opening Free?

We play relays after 1M openings using 2C as our relay starter, with relay breaks showing hands without support for the major opened. It is also possible to force to game in single suited hands via other bids without relaying. Occasionally wrong-sides contracts, but this is rare.

Having played MOSCITO also, I find our method is slightly less vulnerable to pre-emption, since the major suit is known as the longest suit (unlike the canape aspect of MOSCITO), and the relayer tends to be strong balanced, thus reducing the possibility of interference.

[the hog]

I have started playing a system where step = part score+ relay and step + 1 = GFR. This works exceptionally well and has the huge adv that if the opps compete we know in one bid whether we have competitive or gf values.

[Free]

mr1303, on Feb 10 2005, 09:00 AM, said:

How do your relays work after a 1D opening Free?

That's a secret

1♥ is natural OR inv+ relay. Then:

1♠ = 4♠, can be balanced, have longer m, 3 suited, and can even have 4♥s
   2♣ = relay
      2♦ = 4+♦ (2- or 3-suited)
      2♥ = balanced
      2♠ = 3-suited with ♠ & ♣
      2NT+ = 2-suited 4♠ & 5+♣
1NT = balanced without 4 card M
2♣ = singlesuited ♣ or 2-suited minors, so ♦ can be longer!
   2♦ = relay
      2♥ = singlesuited ♣
      2♠+ = 2-suited minors
2♦ = singlesuited ♦
2♥ = 4 card ♥, none of the above (balanced, 3-suited without ♠ or 2-suited with longer m)
   2♠ = relay
      2NT = balanced
      3♣ = 2-suited, 5+♣
      3♦ = 2-suited, 5+♦
      3♥ = 1-4-4-4
      3♠ = 0-4-4-5
      3NT = 0-4-5-4

Most difficult hands are the 2-suited with 4♥ and 5+m, since they end a little too high if we ask exact shape. However, finding a ♠ fit isn't a problem, since we bid 3♠ to show a 5 card, and relay with longer ♠s.