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1NT as takeout double

#1 User is offline   stunvite 

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Posted 2014-March-24, 08:26

I have seen 1NT as takeout double (8+p) a few times now and I am wondering if bidding 1NT as takeout double is a good idea? What would be the best defence for it? And if you are playing it then what is the most efficient way to use it (aka what you as the partner should bid on it)?
Thank you.
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#2 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2014-March-24, 12:47

View Poststunvite, on 2014-March-24, 08:26, said:

I have seen 1NT as takeout double (8+p) a few times now and I am wondering if bidding 1NT as takeout double is a good idea? What would be the best defence for it? And if you are playing it then what is the most efficient way to use it (aka what you as the partner should bid on it)?
Thank you.


best defence - double as a suggestion of penalty with any appropriate hand and be prepared to be gracious when you collect a big penalty lol
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#3 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2014-March-24, 15:19

Just play what you play over a takeout X as a defense, eg 1S (1N), X= a hand you would XX with over 1S X, 2N=4 card limit raise, new suit natural NF.
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#4 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2014-March-24, 15:48

View PostJLOGIC, on 2014-March-24, 15:19, said:

Just play what you play over a takeout X as a defense, eg 1S (1N), X= a hand you would XX with over 1S X, 2N=4 card limit raise, new suit natural NF.


Which, conveniently enough, is basically what you probably play after a strong 1NT overcall. So you don't need to change your defence at all.
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#5 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2014-March-24, 16:14

Something you might want to read: http://www.fernside....lStructure.html
Be the partner you want to play with.
Trust demands integrity, balance and collaboration.
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Steve Moese
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#6 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2014-March-24, 17:12

View Postsfi, on 2014-March-24, 15:48, said:

Which, conveniently enough, is basically what you probably play after a strong 1NT overcall. So you don't need to change your defence at all.


That's true, good point
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#7 User is offline   guido 

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Posted 2014-March-28, 08:16

You also asked if it were a good idea to use 1NT as a take-out device.

The Baron system used 1NT as a light shapely takeout, promising a void or stiff in the opened suit. The advantage was to eliminate such hands from a take-out double which often showed an off-shape intermediary hand (a hand that would now be bid with a simple overcall). Advancer was not under pressure to jump with a moderate hand to invite.

The original Neapolitan system used 1NT similarly (although the lower limit was higher). This was quickly abandoned, however. The rationale for this bid was that their overcalls where limited, so takeout doubles were often off-shape. Removing a "perfectly" shaped takeout from the double simplified the bidding.

In modern defensive bidding in which the overcall can be quite strong, there is much less reason for this type of take-out bid.
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-March-28, 08:25

If you for whatever reason have to double with the off-shape 15-16 counts (either playing 1NT as t/o, raptor, unusual, comic, 17-20 or maybe something even more crazy), some Dutch pairs play different responses to the double:
- 2 of a minor suit below the enemy suit is semipositive, i.e. doubler will bid on with the balanced 15-16
- 1NT is negative, i.e. doubler will pass with the balanced 15-16

Beware of system regulations, by the way. Depending on how weak you play 1NT, It may become a BSC if it doesn't promise 4 cards in a known suit.
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#9 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2014-March-28, 10:25

View PostJLOGIC, on 2014-March-24, 15:19, said:

Just play what you play over a takeout X as a defense, eg 1S (1N), X= a hand you would XX with over 1S X, 2N=4 card limit raise, new suit natural NF.

Thx, yes this is what I tell my PD's to do when we come up against that strong pair here that plays Overcall Structure.
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