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What To Bid

Poll: What To Bid (36 member(s) have cast votes)

Bid Here

  1. 3 Hearts (5 votes [13.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.89%

  2. 3 NT (6 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  3. 4 Clubs (6 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  4. 4 Hearts (18 votes [50.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  5. Something Else (1 votes [2.78%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.78%

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#1 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 06:42

I was shown this hand in a teaching session, both hands were shown and when I said what I though N should bid teacher basically said I was resulting! maybe I was but I thought what I suggested was fairly clear so just looking for opinions :)

I'll post full hand later.

System is Benji Acol: a 2C opening would have shown an 8 playing trick hand. 1NT is old fashioned ACOL non-forcing. Vulnerability unknown, form of scoring MP in a fairly weak field.





thanks,

Eagles
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#2 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 06:52

You bid 3N and dummy had xxx, xx, Axxx, J109x ? The teacher said bid 3 ?

I'd probably bid 2 on this hand as a probe, as if partner shows stops with 2N I'm bidding 3, if he bids 3 I bid 4, hopefully he has KQx, xx, xxxx, xxxx.
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#3 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 07:28

I would open 1, and rebid 3 over most responses including 1NT.

Quote

System is Benji Acol: a 2C opening would have shown an 8 playing trick hand.

I am not knowledgeable on this system, but doesn't this hand have 8 playing tricks?
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#4 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 07:42

4H. Not good enough for 4C, too good for 3H. Not good enough for 3NT whatever it means. 4H plays opposite KQD and out for example.
'In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.' - Douglas Adams
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#5 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 08:05

I voted for 3 but it is a bit of a blame transfer. Partner won't know that we need help in diamonds and spades, but not in hearts. So maybe we should just bid 4.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#6 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 09:03

View Postbillw55, on 2014-March-21, 07:28, said:


I am not knowledgeable on this system, but doesn't this hand have 8 playing tricks?


Yes it does, but I don't think it's actually an EBU legal 2 opener as (points+length of 2 longest suits<25) and it doesn't have 8 clear cut tricks (you budget for a heart loser by that definition).
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#7 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 09:07

I voted for 3 too.

It's not perfect. We will miss a heart game opposite some crumbs but get to 3nt opposite others.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
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#8 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 09:26

3nt
I like to bid games
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#9 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 09:33

View PostCyberyeti, on 2014-March-21, 09:03, said:

Yes it does, but I don't think it's actually an EBU legal 2 opener as (points+length of 2 longest suits<25) and it doesn't have 8 clear cut tricks (you budget for a heart loser by that definition).

I don't think I would like a jurisdiction where a suit likely to play for 7 tricks opposite a void is not allowed to be called 7 tricks, and a 2C opening with 8 tricks is permissible, but only if we meet some other arbitrary "rule of..." requirement. Benji Acol sure sounds like a British style, and I assume you are allowed to use it there.

This doesn't imply that my style lets me open 2C with this hand; only that the OP's stated conditions do allow for it. I hope the ACBL lets me call this 8 real for hearts, so I can use our NAMYATS 4C toy.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 09:36

Change T to J and it becomes a legal 2 opening but that doesn't mean that 2 would be a good choice. It also fits the definition of a 1 opening so you have a (better) choice.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#11 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 09:47

View Postaguahombre, on 2014-March-21, 09:33, said:

I don't think I would like a jurisdiction where a suit likely to play for 7 tricks opposite a void is not allowed to be called 7 tricks, and a 2C opening with 8 tricks is permissible, but only if we meet some other arbitrary "rule of..." requirement. Benji Acol sure sounds like a British style, and I assume you are allowed to use it there.

This doesn't imply that my style lets me open 2C with this hand; only that the OP's stated conditions do allow for it. I hope the ACBL lets me call this 8 real for hearts, so I can use our NAMYATS 4C toy.


The definition of clear cut tricks is not arbitrary, basically take your suit, give partner a void, take the second most favourable break ie 4-2 with the high cards in the long hand for clear cut tricks (and there's a HCP restriction which this hand meets). Benji Acol is legal, what they were trying to legislate against is actually a different issue, you can open this hand a strong 2 provided your disclosure is adequate, but what they didn't want was people opening a technically "strong" 2 with AKQ to 8 and out ie not a strong hand.
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#12 User is offline   the_clown 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 10:44

3N or 4 could be right, not bidding game would never occur to me.
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#13 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 10:45

View Postaguahombre, on 2014-March-21, 09:33, said:

2C opening with 8 tricks is permissible, but only if we meet some other arbitrary "rule of..." requirement. Benji Acol sure sounds like a British style, and I assume you are allowed to use it there.


You don't have it quite right. In Benji a 2 opener is defined as 8 playing tricks, perhaps with a balanced option (and I believe it should have opening HCP); it is a 2 opener which must meet the extended rule of 25.
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#14 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 11:37

View PostCyberyeti, on 2014-March-21, 06:52, said:

You bid 3N and dummy had xxx, xx, Axxx, J109x ? The teacher said bid 3 ?

I'd probably bid 2 on this hand as a probe, as if partner shows stops with 2N I'm bidding 3, if he bids 3 I bid 4, hopefully he has KQx, xx, xxxx, xxxx.

I like this idea. Hopefully PD is not permitted to jump to 4 thinking that you have a 5-6 major suit monster.
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#15 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 13:32

I didn't know the EBU had official dogma about solid 7-card suits. On my planet, AKQTXXX, requiring 33 or doubleton jack if pard is void, and much less if partner has one, is acceptable to be called a solid 7 tricks.
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#16 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 14:29

I have often wondered. In this sequence, a rebid by Opener of 2S as a true suit reverse to force seems somewhat wasted, because partner assuredly lacks a 4-card spade suit. This seems like the one reverse sequence that is most useful as a fudged artificial force, and yet it is also the most likely to be missed as an option to solve bidding problems. Must be the more against faking spades.

I mean, here's a three - card fragment just sitting there begging for a mention. If Opener obliges, good things can happen. Maybe partner shows a doubleton heart with a non - bust hand. Maybe he shows a diamond suit. Maybe he raises spades. Worst case is a 2NT reply, but how bad is that?
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#17 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 15:54

thanks folks, interesting stuff. I thought it was a 4 bid and the more I looked at it the more I thought so and I say this because the system is benji. I.e. if it was any stronger it would be a 2 opening so the self splinter would be limited by the fact the hand hadn't opened with 2

but as I say probably just resulting, other hand was

xxx
x
AKQxx
xxxx
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#18 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 16:31

View Posteagles123, on 2014-March-21, 15:54, said:

thanks folks, interesting stuff. I thought it was a 4 bid and the more I looked at it the more I thought so and I say this because the system is benji. I.e. if it was any stronger it would be a 2 opening so the self splinter would be limited by the fact the hand hadn't opened with 2

but as I say probably just resulting, other hand was

xxx
x
AKQxx
xxxx


If 3nt rebid shows solid h and a big hand that at least gives responder an option to pass or bid.
otoh if you play 3nt here as somewhat random...tougher.
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#19 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 16:51

View Posteagles123, on 2014-March-21, 15:54, said:

thanks folks, interesting stuff. I thought it was a 4 bid and the more I looked at it the more I thought so and I say this because the system is benji. I.e. if it was any stronger it would be a 2 opening so the self splinter would be limited by the fact the hand hadn't opened with 2

but as I say probably just resulting, other hand was

xxx
x
AKQxx
xxxx


My partner always has xxx, x, xxxx, KQJxx when I autosplinter :) 4-2

He certainly doesn't have what you posted as he bid 2 with that
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#20 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 17:13

I rebid 4 hopefully a self-splinter with solid and not the usually useless Gerber.

and I agree this is a 2 Benji opening. AKQ 7th is good enough for 6-card suit would need AKQJ. it just plain statistics like
aguahombre said
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