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Responsive double What would you bid?

#1 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2013-November-12, 18:43

MP's, you're red, they're not:

Jxxx
Qxx
A
KQxxx

(1)-X-(2)-X
(Pa)-?

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

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#2 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2013-November-12, 19:29

2S
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

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#3 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2013-November-12, 21:32

3c

pard might be 3=3=3=4 with values

Axx,,Axx.xxx.AXXX?
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#4 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 04:10

View Postmike777, on 2013-November-12, 21:32, said:

3c

pard might be 3=3=3=4 with values

Axx,,Axx.xxx.AXXX?

In which case he will bid again over 2, probably 3, even though a slight underbid.
More likely partner is weaker with 4-4 (or longer) in the majors.
3 is terrible in my opinion.

Rainer Herrmann
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#5 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 04:46

Seems like a routine 2 to me.

Rik
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#6 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 07:17

Then I guess no responsive double should have been made but 3?

QT8
Jxx
J7x
AJxx

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


Mi Blog

In all fields of endeavour emotion is the arch-enemy of judgement.

Kelsey
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#7 User is offline   RSClyde 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 07:36

Having now correctly read the problem, I will withdraw my snide comments and return to the good graces of the 2S bid. 3C makes no sense. If the double shows 2 places to play (as I play), then I should bid my 4 card suits up the line from the current bid, if partner doesn't have 4 spades then he must have 4 clubs and should bid them. Otherwise, why is he doubling if his only 4 card suit is hearts? If, as I gather most play, X shows strictly the majors, then why are we even talking about this?
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#8 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 07:47

View PostRSClyde, on 2013-November-13, 07:36, said:

I would bid 3. Partner doubled and I'm looking at a stiff diamond?

You doubled first, partner made a responsive double. You are "supposed to" look at a stiff diamond.

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
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#9 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 08:02

I would bid 3. If partner had 4 spades he would bid them. He should have something like 3334 with some values.
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#10 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 08:14

I don't understand all of the 3C bids after the Responsive DBL .
The 2nd DBL here says " pick a major " .
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#11 User is offline   RSClyde 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 08:29

View PostTrinidad, on 2013-November-13, 07:47, said:

You doubled first, partner made a responsive double. You are "supposed to" look at a stiff diamond.

Rik

What am I supposed to do read the post correctly? Geez!
I make videos about bridge. Check it out!

Right Syde Clyde
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#12 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 08:48

View PostArtK78, on 2013-November-13, 08:02, said:

I would bid 3. If partner had 4 spades he would bid them. He should have something like 3334 with some values.

View PostTWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-November-13, 08:14, said:

I don't understand all of the 3C bids after the Responsive DBL .
The 2nd DBL here says " pick a major " .

These are the two schools of thought on the Responsive Double in this particular situation. The nature of a "RD" does change, IMO, depending on what the opps' suit is and the level of the raise --- but like any tool, it requires more than mere agreement to use it. We need to discuss it in different contexts and agree on continuations.

Here we have one poster advocating his view and another telling us "the way it is".

We have decided that on (1D) X (2D) the Responsive double is as Art suggests, and with a competitive 4-4 in the majors we are willing to bid 2S...possibly ready to compete again with 3H if the auction continues. We think this agreement allows for Art's example hand type while frequently breaking even when we are 4-4M.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#13 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 09:56

View PostHanoi5, on 2013-November-13, 07:17, said:

Then I guess no responsive double should have been made but 3?

QT8
Jxx
J7x
AJxx


We don't always adhere to this, especially at mp's but the responsive double promises 2 places to play and this hand only has 1 so it's a 3 bid. Mind you we are allergic to takeout doubles with the wrong shape and overcall with chunky 4-card suits instead. Pass and balance more often than most too.

There is a significant downside of wandering into an ugly 4-3 fit and we strain to make a disciplined pass on quacky hands like this that are forced to the 3 level and get our fair share of them wrong. It's definitely a trouble hand for us that we're happy to break even on.
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#14 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 10:35

I would think that the style of doubling is relevant here. If you play a traditional style then there is no problem with partner bidding clubs when they have a clear preference for them. On the other hand, if you double in a modern style showing the majors and perhaps clubs (4432, say) there is a lot to be said for the responsive double showing clubs plus tolerance for at least one major. That would save ending up in a 4-2 fit at the 3 level. So I bid 2 if our doubles are traditional (or largely undiscussed) and 3 if double did not promise club support.
(-: Zel :-)
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#15 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 10:41

over 2 partner knows that we have 3, 4 and less than 3 diamonds...
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#16 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 11:47

View PostFluffy, on 2013-November-13, 10:41, said:

over 2 partner knows that we have 3, 4 and less than 3 diamonds...


Interesting idea...

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


Mi Blog

In all fields of endeavour emotion is the arch-enemy of judgement.

Kelsey
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#17 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 11:55

Have you never doubled 1 with a 4=3=3=3 hand, Fluffy? Or with a weak 5 card spade suit?
(-: Zel :-)
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#18 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 12:02

This particular responsive double of 1D-2D should show exactly both majors. With only one 4-card suit, pard can bid it, but how else does pard show both majors at the same time?

Knowing that, the rest is easy.
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#19 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 12:09

And if you hold a decent 3334 hand and do not want to pass what do you call? If you go with 3 and partner turns up with 4432 that is just bad luck right? Surely what a call should show is dependent upon what the previous bidding has shown. So doubling style is relevant.
(-: Zel :-)
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#20 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2013-November-13, 16:56

I would bid 3 . I believe partner would bid a 4 card major when holding one rather than make a responsive double.

If partner has only 3 , then playing a 7 card fit would probably not be good. A forcing defense would cause you to take ruffs in the long trump hand.

So I'd opt to play in a likely 8 card fit.
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