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〖美国大师讲座〗精确体系中的无将阶梯 which is best

#1 User is offline   DJNeill 

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Posted 2013-November-06, 18:29

Hi all,

The original NT range in CC Wei precision was 13-15 HCP, possibly because it would allow the simple rule of all 16+ HCP hands opening 1C.

There is a trend in the West to open 1NT with 14-16 HCP in Precision.

Here are a few reasons:

1. When 1NT is 13-15, NT ranges with 16 or more HCP must be stretched and are vulnerable to being lost in interference.

One possible ladder is:
1D-1M-1N = 11-12
1N = 13-15
1C-1D-1N = 16-19
2N = 20-21

Another is:
1D-1M-1N = 11-12
1N = 13-15
1C-1D-1N = 16-18
2N = 19-20

or even:
1D-1M-1N = 11-12
1N = 13-15
1C-1D-1N = 16-18
1C-1D-1H [H or BAL]-1S[forced]-1N = 19-21
2N = 22-23

In each case, the balanced hands that open 1C start at 16.

The problem with stretching the 1C-containing NT range is that when the opponent's compete, opener has a wider range of NT's to cover.

1C-(1H)-X-(2H) and opener may have 16 balanced or 19 balanced, for example.

Or opener may have an unbalanced hand. Opener is already at a disadvantage and this adds to it.

By playing a 14-16 NT, opener will always have 17+ if balanced, which provides more information in competition.


2. By removing 16 HCP balanced hands from 1C, it makes a random 8 HCP response a better promise of game.

Balanced hands have the least trick potential, versus unbalanced hands, on average. If there is no fit, a 16 HCP NT is a disappointment opposite 8 HCP.

By guaranteeing 17+ HCP if balanced, responding hands can upgrade to a positive response more often, which makes it easier to handle competition and get to the right contract.

It is more difficult to handle competition after a 1C-1D than after a 1C-suit positive.

e.g.
xx xxx AKxxx xxx
could gamble a game forcing 2D response to 1C a lot more easily if 1C promised 17+ HCP if balanced. This hand might be lost after 1C-(Pass)-1D-(2S).

Removing the balanced bad hands from 1C makes it easier to guarantee game with any 8 HCP.

The main advantage of 13-15 HCP is that it is more common than 14-16, and thus you can describe your hand more often more quickly with 13-15. However, there is no clear consensus that losing a 4-4 major fit (that you could find with a frequent 1D opening) is worth opening 1NT more often.
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#2 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2013-November-06, 21:42

Dan, In several of my Precision partnerships I have played a 12-15 hcp 1NT. This is too wide a range, so we have gone back to 11-14 and open 1 with 15-16.

Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: http://bridgewithdan...stems/Ultra.pdf

C3: Copious Canape - Improved version of Ultra Relay, notes not posted yet.

Scrap heap: Canapé Attack System with Strong and 4-cd Major openings ...

Back to the Future? Using 1 &1 responses to Strong 1 as Positive Exclusion Color Bids.

NOW playing a Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes like) system with canapé, 11-14 NT with Keri Invites and Bailey 2 bids, & 15+ 1 opener with transfer negatives @ 1-level & transfer positives @ the 2- and 3-levels. Canape after opening 1 or 1 (into a minor suit only). 3/1/17: Adding Nightmare Canape responses to 1 opening.
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#3 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2013-November-07, 03:36

View PostDJNeill, on 2013-November-06, 18:29, said:

Hi all,

The original NT range in CC Wei precision was 13-15 HCP, possibly because it would allow the simple rule of all 16+ HCP hands opening 1C.

There is a trend in the West to open 1NT with 14-16 HCP in Precision.

Here are a few reasons:

1. When 1NT is 13-15, NT ranges with 16 or more HCP must be stretched and are vulnerable to being lost in interference.

One possible ladder is:
1D-1M-1N = 11-12
1N = 13-15
1C-1D-1N = 16-19
2N = 20-21

Another is:
1D-1M-1N = 11-12
1N = 13-15
1C-1D-1N = 16-18
2N = 19-20

or even:
1D-1M-1N = 11-12
1N = 13-15
1C-1D-1N = 16-18
1C-1D-1H [H or BAL]-1S[forced]-1N = 19-21
2N = 22-23

In each case, the balanced hands that open 1C start at 16.

The problem with stretching the 1C-containing NT range is that when the opponent's compete, opener has a wider range of NT's to cover.

1C-(1H)-X-(2H) and opener may have 16 balanced or 19 balanced, for example.

Or opener may have an unbalanced hand. Opener is already at a disadvantage and this adds to it.

By playing a 14-16 NT, opener will always have 17+ if balanced, which provides more information in competition.


2. By removing 16 HCP balanced hands from 1C, it makes a random 8 HCP response a better promise of game.

Balanced hands have the least trick potential, versus unbalanced hands, on average. If there is no fit, a 16 HCP NT is a disappointment opposite 8 HCP.

By guaranteeing 17+ HCP if balanced, responding hands can upgrade to a positive response more often, which makes it easier to handle competition and get to the right contract.

It is more difficult to handle competition after a 1C-1D than after a 1C-suit positive.

e.g.
xx xxx AKxxx xxx
could gamble a game forcing 2D response to 1C a lot more easily if 1C promised 17+ HCP if balanced. This hand might be lost after 1C-(Pass)-1D-(2S).

Removing the balanced bad hands from 1C makes it easier to guarantee game with any 8 HCP.

The main advantage of 13-15 HCP is that it is more common than 14-16, and thus you can describe your hand more often more quickly with 13-15. However, there is no clear consensus that losing a 4-4 major fit (that you could find with a frequent 1D opening) is worth opening 1NT more often.


首先我们真诚地感谢美国桥牌专家Dan Neill大师,全文如下:


精 确 体 系 中 的 无 将 阶 梯

大家好:

原始的魏氏精确体系的无将阶梯是13-15hcp,可能是因为该体系允许使用简单的开叫规则:16hcp+开叫1
但在西方欧美国家里,精确体系倾向于1NT是14-16hcp。
原因如下:

1- 当1nt=13-15hcp时,16p或16p以上的无将阶梯肯定会被扩大,在受干扰的情况下,很容易遭受损失。

那么,一种可能的阶梯是:
1-1M-1N = 11-12
1N = 13-15
1-1-1N = 16-19
2N = 20-21

而另一种无将阶梯是:
1-1M-1N = 11-12
1N = 13-15
1-1-1N = 16-18
2N = 19-20

甚或阶梯是:
1-1M-1N = 11-12
1N = 13-15
1-1-1N = 16-18

1-1
1-1
1N = 19-21

(1* =H套或均型,逼叫至1
1*=接力)

2N = 22-23hcp

在这些牌例中,均型牌面开叫1c的起始点是16P。
这种被扩大的1的无将问题是:当处于对手争叫的进程下,开叫人的强无将阶梯范围过宽会被掩盖。
比如:

开叫人可能是16p均型,也可能是19P均型,或者也可能是一手非均型。这样就使得本已处于不利的情况下的开叫人愈加不利。
而打14-16p阶梯的无将,如果是均型,开叫1将承诺永远有17p+。在竟叫过程中这就为同伴提供了更多的信息。


2- 从1开叫定义中去除16p均型, 就使得任意8hcp应叫都是更好的进局承诺。通常而言,相对于非均型,均型的牌面至少有赢墩的潜力。如果没有花色配合,那么一个16hcp的无将面对着同伴的

8hcp仍是一个令人沮丧的定约。

如果均型而能承诺17P+,经常会获得更多的积极应叫,使得在竟叫过程中处理的更加容易,并且获得正确的定约。
和1-同伴积极应叫花色相比,在竟叫过程中,1--1后更难处理。
例如:应叫人持有
:xx
:xxx
:AKxxx
:xxx
如果1开叫承诺均型时17hcp+,那这牌赌博性应叫2逼局就会容易得多。
而不至于象在下面这样的 叫牌进程中,很可能的丢局。


从1开叫定义中去除均型坏牌,更容易保证任意8hcp进局。
13-15hcp的主要优点是比14-16hcp更常见,如此一来当你持有13-15hcp时可以更频繁更迅速地描述了。
但是,相比错过一门高花4-4配合(开叫1,你会经常性地发现高花配合),13-15p是否是更值得更频繁地开叫1nt没有明确共识。

Dan
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#4 User is offline   lxl3256 

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Posted 2013-November-07, 03:50

学习了,感谢心烛老师。


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#5 User is offline   dillon561 

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Posted 2013-November-07, 03:58

谢谢
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#6 User is offline   dvd 

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Posted 2013-November-07, 04:43

jq的13-15的1n,的确存在一些问题;就开叫来讲,选择大nt还是小nt,就个人的认可度而言:可变大小nt>小nt>大nt;
Fantuns体系采用小nt,用作者的原话来讲,根据他的统计,小nt因为被x而造成的损失可以忽略不计,小nt带来的利远大于弊。
对打jq体系的牌手来讲,条件允许的话,这个NT阶梯的确值得改良。
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#7 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2013-November-07, 11:57

作为译者,我曾多年就浏览他的网站,正是他的网站的专业性深深吸引了我的心,我非常敬佩他,以至于翻译时我能听到dan大师的心声!
意译和直译相辅,怕功底不深的读者误会,我减少了一些意译,他也尊重我的意见,措辞柔和而精炼。限于中国读者的心理承受和知识面,许多话大师是保留的,我敢负责说。而dan大师的牌技,我难望项背,不愧是美国著名的桥牌专家和教练,红丝带获得者。我关注留意和研究这位美国专家多年了,不曾想大师竟然爽快地履约了,让我激动不已。
略表数言,以示敬意!
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#8 User is offline   wuhuan 

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Posted 2013-November-08, 00:54

感谢dan大师,连老师都说难望其项背,我等可能只能够看大师后脚跟的份了(玩笑),再次感谢dan大师。
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