[kgr]

1♣-(1♠)-2♦!-(2♠)
?
2♦=transfer ♥ (not 6c♥ and invite, then we bid 3♥)

We play that 2NT is a good raise in last suit (Gorilla) and 3♥ is competitive.
Given these agreements, I had a discussion with my partner.
- 2NT=4c♥ and exactly extras, never GF <=> 2NT is 4c♥ and extras, possibly very strong
- 3♠=♥-fit, GF <=> asks stopper
- DBL=3c♥ support, extras OR stopper asks <=> 3c♥ support extras OR GF

What is best?

[aguahombre]

FWIW, I would prefer 2NT to be either long clubs or heart support if it is the strong bid...with both 3C and 3H being merely competitive. I think you need to be able to show the club hands, not just the heart hands as opener.

[inquiry]

aguahombre, on 2013-August-27, 11:22, said:

FWIW, I would prefer 2NT to be either long clubs or heart support if it is the strong bid...with both 3C and 3H being merely competitive. I think you need to be able to show the club hands, not just the heart hands as opener.

Two way good/bad 2NT is NOT a good idea on this auction. Why? The bidding is very likely to go ...

1C - 1S - 2D - 2S
2N - 4S

Now your partner is in the dark. Do you have long clubs? Do you have heart support? The uncertainty would be a huge problem. You need bids that accurately describe the nature of the raise.

[kgr]

Thank you for the comments...

aguahombre, on 2013-August-27, 11:22, said:

FWIW, I would prefer 2NT to be either long clubs or heart support if it is the strong bid...with both 3C and 3H being merely competitive. I think you need to be able to show the club hands, not just the heart hands as opener.

inquiry, on 2013-August-27, 11:45, said:

Two way good/bad 2NT is NOT a good idea on this auction. Why? The bidding is very likely to go ...

1C - 1S - 2D - 2S
2N - 4S

Now your partner is in the dark. Do you have long clubs? Do you have heart support? The uncertainty would be a huge problem. You need bids that accurately describe the nature of the raise.

...but you are also very welcome to give your opinion on the question in OP.

[aguahombre]

kgr, on 2013-August-28, 10:32, said:

Thank you for the comments...
...but you are also very welcome to give your opinion on the question in OP.

Thank you. Since the question was "What is best?"..I felt it would be O.K. to give an opinion. I felt if 2NT were the strong variant, it could handle a dual meaning in the continuations after interference --- and Inquiry disagrees. I believe that if 2NT were the "bad" rather than the "good" it should be specific about strain, since further interference would blow us out if we are the ones who should be sacrificing.

[inquiry]

The problem with the nebulous 2NT (either good with heart support or bad with clubs) is that opener's hand is not the only one defined. Responder has either a bad hand (was going to pass 2♥ or better than an invitational hand (was going to bid again over 2♥, presumably game force).

Now over 4♠, neither partner knows if the other is strong or weak. Worse, the 2♥ bidder doesn't know if his partner has support or not, and if he
has support, does he have "Real clubs" or not, nor the quality of the support. Is a "good" heart raise through 2NT enough to force to game opposite the worse of the bad versions of the 2♦ transfer. Opener can not bid 5♣ as choice of contracts, his partner will think he has buncho clubs and taking save, Other problems would exist as well. You might very well land on your feet, but I don't like the double uncertainties.

The original methods posted in the OP are not bad, and are certainly playable. I might consider something quite different.

I would suggest possibly playing something like the following, but I am only offering this because I have been called out for suggestions:

• play the 3♥ raise as just competitive, expecting not to go higher opposite anything but a game forcing hand opposite.
• I would (blush) play a jump to 4♥ as game forcing raise (duh), but with nothing "extra" in the game force whelm. The minimum value of the 4♥ jump is whatever you want to be in game opposite the weakest hand you can imagine partner bidding 2♦ on, up to a trick and half stronger than that minimum.
• I would play a jump to 4♦ not as a splinter, but rather as a STRONGER raise to 4♥ than the jump to 4♥, a minimum of two tricks stronger than what I consider a minimum for 4♥, but denies a great club suit or a control in spades
• A jump to 4♣ would show great club suit plus heart fit, and promise control of at least one of diamond or spades
• A jump to 3♠ would show a hand similar to 4♦. but promise a spade control (could be splinter).
• 2NT is good bad, obviously for clubs
• 3♣ is at least Ace better than minimum.
• 3♦ is not a reverse, it is invitational raise of hearts
• Double, uncertain direction, can include hands with reverse in diamonds, unsuited for any of the other bids. If the diamond bidders hearts are strong enough, hearts are clearly still in the picture for game or slam.

[aguahombre]

If 2NT is Good, it is good. The "nebulous" is whether it is good with heart support or good with long clubs. So, we are on different pages. Of course it is unworkable to have 2nt be either good for one or bad for the other.

3C=comp with clubs
3H=comp for hearts.
2N=strong for one or the other, with continuation tools whether they jack up the level or not.

[gnasher]

To answer kgr's original question, I don't think you should combine the 3-card support hands with the stopper ask, because the opponents may bid 4♠ before opener has had a chance to specify which one he has. Hence, of the two, I prefer the right-hand scheme.

Some general points:
- Your decisions depend on the minimum promised by the 2♦ transfer. Some partnerships might bid it on a 7-count with a good 5-card suit. Others promise either a 6-card suit or invitational values. I prefer the latter.
- It's more important to distinguish between balanced and unbalanced hands than to say how strong you are. If you start by describing your hand-type, it leaves partner better placed if there is further competition, even though he doesn;t know how strong you are. If necessary you can show extra strength later by doubling.
- With 4-card support opener should often raise to game (though it does depend on what 2♦ promised).

This is what I would play:
- Double = takeout (includes any strong hand without support, eg the stopper-ask type).
- 2NT = Unbalanced with 3-card support, or 18-19 balanced with 3/4-card support.
- 3♥ = 11-14 balanced with support (usually 3-card, but can have 4 if unsuitable).
- 3♠ = Unbalanced with 4-card support.
- 4♥ = 11-14 balanced with 4-card support.