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Best line in 4H A toughie

#1 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2013-January-08, 18:15

Assume no info from opps


East leads 4♥
'In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.' - Douglas Adams
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#2 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2013-January-08, 18:37

 broze, on 2013-January-08, 18:15, said:

Assume no info from opps


East leads 4♥

I'll wait to see what esoteric lines others may suggest, but I win in hand, cross in trumps and run the club 10.

This is a little better than 75% because E would sometimes lead the club K from KQ.

I have to be missing something since this seems obvious. Other possible lines appear, to me, to be too esoteric.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#3 User is offline   bigbenvic 

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Posted 2013-January-08, 18:53

 broze, on 2013-January-08, 18:15, said:

Assume no info from opps


East leads 4♥


If I duck a club, can I set up enough ruffs to make ten tricks. Maybe try and lose 2 ♦ and 1♣ in the North hand and ruff the rest. I may be an entry short if they don't cash diamonds.
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#4 User is offline   bigbenvic 

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Posted 2013-January-08, 18:58

Maybe I'm better to overtake and ♥ and lead the T♣ and if covered I can set up a club and if not I can try to ruff the hand out.
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#5 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2013-January-08, 19:35

Yeah, I ran the ten and later ran the 9, finding KQ offside. It probably isn't a very interesting problem given the high rate of success (as Mike said 75% or better) but of course I'm always on the look out for improvements and seeing the full hand made me wonder. Here it is:


'In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.' - Douglas Adams
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#6 User is offline   bigbenvic 

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Posted 2013-January-08, 20:05

 broze, on 2013-January-08, 19:35, said:

Yeah, I ran the ten and later ran the 9, finding KQ offside. It probably isn't a very interesting problem given the high rate of success (as Mike said 75% or better) but of course I'm always on the look out for improvements and seeing the full hand made me wonder. Here it is:




What did they do after winning the club?
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#7 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2013-January-08, 20:44

Another trump.
'In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.' - Douglas Adams
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#8 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2013-January-08, 20:44

You can reverse the dummy:

Trick 1 - win heart in hand
2-4 - play three top spades. If East follows, pitch a club.

If that all passes off peacefully, you are home - ruff the fourth spade high, play a club to the ace and claim. If East ruffs the third spade, your original line will still work fine if he was 23 in the majors. If West ruffs, you are badly placed, but not down yet.

My view is that when they lead a trump, the hands tend to be more balanced than usual. Also they would almost never lead the club king into a strong no trump (I assume we just transferred and bid 3NT, removed to 4♥).
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#9 User is offline   bigbenvic 

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Posted 2013-January-08, 21:39

 PhilKing, on 2013-January-08, 20:44, said:

You can reverse the dummy:

Trick 1 - win heart in hand
2-4 - play three top spades. If East follows, pitch a club.

If that all passes off peacefully, you can claim if the club ace stands up. If East ruffs the third spade, your original line will still work fine if he was 23 in the majors. If West ruffs, you are badly placed, but not down yet.

My view is that when they lead a trump, the hands tend to be more balanced than usual. Also they would almost never lead the club king into a strong no trump (I assume we just transferred and bid 3NT, removed to 4♥).


How do you get back to Norths hand enough times? you win 3♠ ruff a ♠ A♣ Ruff a ♣ and If you play a trump and ruff another black card, now what? Can you get another ruff in before they lead a trump?

If you don't play a trump, what is your exit? If a Diamond, cant they win, lead a trump and then if they are good they can have the hand with 3 trumps lead a third trump and you now have 4 losers again
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#10 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2013-January-09, 04:39

 bigbenvic, on 2013-January-08, 21:39, said:

How do you get back to Norths hand enough times? you win 3♠ ruff a ♠ A♣ Ruff a ♣ and If you play a trump and ruff another black card, now what? Can you get another ruff in before they lead a trump?

You do not need another ruff. 3 ruffs in dummy are enough. you make 6 heart tricks and 3 spade tricks and a club.
The only problem with this line is that spades must be 4-3. Despite Philking's arguments you look rather stupid if they do not.

Rainer Herrmann
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#11 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2013-January-09, 04:45

 PhilKing, on 2013-January-08, 20:44, said:

You can reverse the dummy:

<pedantry>Since the hand is played by North, you aren't really reversing the dummy.</pedantry>:)
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#12 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2013-January-09, 05:41

FWIW I don't think there is much difference between the reverse dummy line and the double finesse line.
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#13 User is offline   bigbenvic 

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Posted 2013-January-09, 20:17

 rhm, on 2013-January-09, 04:39, said:

You do not need another ruff. 3 ruffs in dummy are enough. you make 6 heart tricks and 3 spade tricks and a club.
The only problem with this line is that spades must be 4-3. Despite Philking's arguments you look rather stupid if they do not.

Rainer Herrmann


Sometimes if i just count to ten (or 13) life is very simple.
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