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Asking opponents not to alert Where can you do this?

#1 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-November-11, 18:42

I'm pretty sure we've discussed this here, but I can't find it now. I'm also pretty sure that some jurisdictions do not allow players to "turn off" their opponents' alerting, and that perhaps some do allow it. The question is, which is which? I guess I'm mostly concerned with my own house - ACBL — but what the heck, if we can get a succinct list, let's go for it.

Question: are players allowed to ask their opponents to refrain from alerting?

  • WBF: yes (no, with screens in use)
  • ACBL: yes/no
  • EBL: yes/no
  • EBU: no
  • SBU: no
  • ABF: no
  • NZB: no
  • Norway: no
  • Sweden: yes
  • The Netherlands: yes
  • Germany: yes


Feel free to mention any jurisdiction I haven't listed. I'll try to keep the list up to date as we go along.
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#2 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2012-November-11, 19:24

ABF: No

Section 7.1
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#3 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2012-November-11, 20:05

It has been discussed here. As I recall, it is not allowed in ACBL events.
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#4 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-November-11, 20:10

View PostTimG, on 2012-November-11, 20:05, said:

It has been discussed here. As I recall, it is not allowed in ACBL events.

Yeah, that's what I thought, but a poster on another forum says that he was told by a particular director at the Dayton Ohio Regional that it is allowed. I await more data. B-)
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As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-November-11, 21:40

View PostTimG, on 2012-November-11, 20:05, said:

It has been discussed here. As I recall, it is not allowed in ACBL events.

View Postblackshoe, on 2012-November-11, 20:10, said:

Yeah, that's what I thought, but a poster on another forum says that he was told by a particular director at the Dayton Ohio Regional that it is allowed. I await more data. B-)

Yep. And I still hope, as I did in the previous thread that TimG is right. Insisting on no alerts is gamesmanship, designed to disrupt the opponents' instilled rhythm and somehow gain advantage from putting them off their "feed".
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#6 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2012-November-11, 22:31

Previous thread: http://www.bridgebas...7-banned-alert/
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#7 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 01:04

I've updated the list with info from the previous thread.

Mycroft, do you have a reference for the "no, in the ACBL"? It sounds like this is one of those things that's changed, but some people (including apparently at least one Regional level TD) aren't aware of it.

Aha! Found it, I think. From the minutes of the meeting of the Competitions and Conventions Committee, Summer 2009:

Quote

Item 5f: Asking players to not alert – opinion gathering.
i. Committee felt that this request should not be accommodated.
ii. Motion to not allow “Please no alerts” passed.

I said "I think" because I did not find a corresponding entry in the minutes of the meetings of the BoD since 2009. I suppose I might have missed it. :unsure:

This post has been edited by blackshoe: 2012-November-12, 01:40
Reason for edit: Added reference to C&C minutes

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As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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#8 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 01:30

NZ Bridge Manual "Alerts are compulsory – you may not ask the opponents not to alert."
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
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#9 User is offline   hakan_str 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 02:31

Hi.

In Sweden it's allowed. §115A.1 states (rough translation :) )

".... A pair can though request that their opponents at the table do not use the alert method"

This post has been edited by hakan_str: 2012-November-12, 06:59

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#10 User is offline   pran 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 03:09

Norway: No

(It was allowed initially, but the regulation now says "shall be alerted" and does not mention any possibility to ask for or request opponents to refrain from alerting)
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#11 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2012-November-14, 10:06

In the 1980's playing precision at an ACBL regional, my partner opened 1, I alerted, and the opponent said to me "We don't want to be alerted, it just allows you to exchange information with your parnter" (direct quote, as I wrote in a notebook later that day). The next hand, my LHO opened 1NT, and my RHO bid 2 (jacoby transfer) which my LHO alerted. i said to them "We don't want to be alerted, it just allows you to exchange information with your partner".

The fellow called the director and started yelling at me of accusing him of cheating. He was offended that I would dare ask not to be alerted and add the stuff about exchanging info, I explained to the director what had happened. Funny, the director took his side, and told me that "I" could not ask not to be alerted in the middle of the round. I never found such a rule at the time, and it is true, I only repeated what he said to me to be a wise ass as I found his comment to me unacceptable. So I guess situations like this might influence what an organization does with regards to regulating such request.

Anyway, I REALLY enjoyed getting under his skin with that comment (back then at least).
--Ben--

#12 User is offline   pran 

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Posted 2012-November-14, 11:06

View Postinquiry, on 2012-November-14, 10:06, said:

In the 1980's playing precision at an ACBL regional, my partner opened 1, I alerted, and the opponent said to me "We don't want to be alerted, it just allows you to exchange information with your parnter" (direct quote, as I wrote in a notebook later that day). The next hand, my LHO opened 1NT, and my RHO bid 2 (jacoby transfer) which my LHO alerted. i said to them "We don't want to be alerted, it just allows you to exchange information with your partner".

The fellow called the director and started yelling at me of accusing him of cheating. He was offended that I would dare ask not to be alerted and add the stuff about exchanging info, I explained to the director what had happened. Funny, the director took his side, and told me that "I" could not ask not to be alerted in the middle of the round. I never found such a rule at the time, and it is true, I only repeated what he said to me to be a wise ass as I found his comment to me unacceptable. So I guess situations like this might influence what an organization does with regards to regulating such request.

Anyway, I REALLY enjoyed getting under his skin with that comment (back then at least).

Assuming that my memory serves me correct we (in Norway) could at any time during an auction and with any board in the round forbid our opponents alerting. We were not allowed to withdraw this request so once requested the prohibition lasted until the end of the round.
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#13 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-November-14, 11:11

View Postinquiry, on 2012-November-14, 10:06, said:

In the 1980's playing precision at an ACBL regional, my partner opened 1, I alerted, and the opponent said to me "We don't want to be alerted, it just allows you to exchange information with your parnter" (direct quote, as I wrote in a notebook later that day). The next hand, my LHO opened 1NT, and my RHO bid 2 (jacoby transfer) which my LHO alerted. i said to them "We don't want to be alerted, it just allows you to exchange information with your partner".

The fellow called the director and started yelling at me of accusing him of cheating. He was offended that I would dare ask not to be alerted and add the stuff about exchanging info, I explained to the director what had happened. Funny, the director took his side, and told me that "I" could not ask not to be alerted in the middle of the round.

I wouldn't be surprised if the TD had a bias against pairs playing "unusual" systems. Which is, of course, totally backwards -- you're hardly going to forget that you're playing Precision, and if almost every bid gets alerted there's little information being exchanged.

#14 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-November-15, 03:12

DBV = yes. "Jedes Paar kann vor Beginn der Reizung verlangen, dass seine Gegner bis zum Ende der Runde nicht alertieren."

I could not find anything in the screen regulations withdrawing this (nor affirming it) although my German is not the best.
(-: Zel :-)
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#15 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2017-March-22, 18:06

The law should insist that you announce conventional calls (helped by a card containing a table of common meanings) Or, equivalently, that opponents must always ask. This drastic simplification would save reams of local regulations. Until that change, my opinion remains:

View Postnige1, on 2012-July-29, 20:14, said:

  • Before the alert-rule was introduced, in every session you could expect a couple of cricket-scores when an auction spiraled out of control, neither opponent knowing what calls were artificial or what they meant.
  • When alerts were first introduced in Scotland, you could ask opponents Please don't alert. We used to carry a card with a such a request. Hence we would still benefit from a few catastrophic misunderstandings by opponents, in every tournament. (Incidentally, our card also said Compulsory pause over pre-empts -- that was before the modern "STOP" regulations).
  • Opponents who relied on their own alerts and explanations were unaware of the advantage conferred on them -- if they understood the law at all. They were just like most players today..
  • A new problem arose. Unfortunately. players become accustomed to alerting. When you asked them not to alert, they couldn't help "half-alerting". Understandably, directors didn't want to treat the alert itself as an infraction. Hence alerting became compulsory, in most jurisdictions.
  • Nevertheless, The Germans deserve congratulations for their efforts to improve alert-rules.

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