[MickyB]

+1 to the biggest advantage being in competition. I don't think anyone has mentioned that 1m then NT in competition must be unbalanced too. 1m:1X, 2N as ART is nice but there are several other ways of freeing up this rebid.

[bluecalm]

Quote

Are 5-card majors permitted in the 18-19 HCP balanced 2♦ opening bids?

Nope.
Interestingly Italians playing this opening (Lauria - Versace, Sementa - Duboin) and similar one (Bocchi - Madala) do open 2N with 5M-3-3-2 inspite of playing a system which could easily accommodate those hands in 1M openings. They must think it's good for some reason.

Quote

I don't think anyone has mentioned that 1m then NT in competition must be unbalanced too

I wonder what:

1D - 1S - p - 2S
2N should be

The possibilities are:
a)good diamonds, S stopper
b)5-4 minors
c)a or b

There was a hand in recent Italian championship where Madala bid that with Qx Ax AQxxx AKxx and got 4C response from Tx Jxx Kxx J98xx but it still doesn't answer my question what would he bid with say: Axx x AKJxxx AJx.

[gnasher]

bluecalm, on 2012-October-01, 04:47, said:

I wonder what:

1D - 1S - p - 2S
2N should be

Does this question imply that you think this sequence shows 18-19 balanced in standard methods? I can't see why one would want to bid at all with such a hand, given that it's not suitable for a takeout double.

Quote

The possibilities are:
a)good diamonds, S stopper
b)5-4 minors
c)a or b

I think the normal meaning is 6-4 in the minors, but I quite like:
(d) 4-6 reds, so that double denies four hearts.

Some people play it as
(e) Good-Bad

[bluecalm]

Quote

Does this question imply that you think this sequence shows 18-19 balanced in standard methods? I can't see why one would want to bid at all with such a hand, given that it's not suitable for a takeout double.

Imo passing with say AQx KQx AKJx xxx is a bad idea here and I would want to bid 2N, especially if we are vul.

[gnasher]

bluecalm, on 2012-October-01, 06:32, said:

Imo passing with say AQx KQx AKJx xxx is a bad idea here and I would want to bid 2N, especially if we are vul.

So that you can go three down opposite xx 10xxx xx Qxxx? Or so that you can go one down in game opposite xx xxx Qxx A10xxx? When partner passes over 1♠ instead of doubling, bidding 1NT, or bidding 2♦, it usually means he doesn't have very much. 2NT is hoping for him to have a hand where he wanted to bid but couldn't, but even opposite that hand-type game won't always make.

[bluecalm]

Well, my judgement might be off here. I just have this experience of passing here (in polish club contest but it's similar) and it always turning up badly. Either we made something (3m, 3N, 2N) or 2NT was -50/100 while 2S was -110.
I am not very confident about it but it seems to me partner has something (5 card minor, enough to win 3NT, enough to win 2N or lose for less than 2S) often enough to make bidding a better option.
Unfortunately I have nothing to support that other than experience on small sample size and intuition so I stay open minded about it.
It would be nice to hear from more players.

[32519]

gwnn, on 2012-September-30, 01:02, said:

LOL. 32519 is creating a little bridge encyclopaedia of obvious questions.

brian_m, on 2012-September-30, 01:51, said:

I can't see why you would waste 2♦ openers on just 18-19 balanced.

When I see people playing conventions that I am either, a) unfamiliar with, or b) cannot see any benefit in using them, I start threads such as this one to try and find out what the reasoning is behind the convention. If the reasoning makes good sense and is better than my current agreements (or has a higher frequency of occurrence than my current agreements, coupled to its benefits), inevitably I temporarily switch to the new convention to test its effectiveness in my overall agreements. This temporary switch can become permanent once I get enough positive feedback at the table using any new convention.

[32519]

How does the Mexican 2♦ bid cope with 4441 hand patterns?

[gwnn]

It avoids mini roman at least.

[blackshoe]

Which Mexican 2♦ bid?

In Bid to Win, Play for Pleasure and Godfrey's Bridge Challenge, the Mexican 2♦ bid included a GF 4441 opening, any shortage, 3 or fewer losers. Responses and rebids catered to this possibility. Later books, in particular Godfrey's Angels, dropped the three suited meaning on frequency grounds, resulting in the structure I mentioned earlier in this thread.

[32519]

blackshoe, on 2012-October-03, 00:02, said:

Which Mexican 2♦ bid?

The OP stated the 18-19 HCP balanced hands. I was trying to find out how the 4441 hands are dealt with when holding 18-19 HCP balanced. Does the hand still qualify as balanced? Or is it now opened with something else. If "something else," then what is the "something else."

[bluecalm]

Italian pairs (all using Mexican/2C for 18-19bal) open 4-4-4-1's with 1C unless it's exactly 4-4-4-1♣ then they open 1D.

[gwnn]

How do SAYC 1H openings handle 4432 hands?

[Raff90]

i used to play 2D as 18-19 bal a bit.
You only open real balanced hands with 2D and no 5 card major. ( So with 4441 you open natural 1C or 1D, dunno why people have problems with that )
with 5 card major and 18-19 balanced you just open 1M and then gazilli to show that hand.
Advantages of 2D opening is that you always find the right fit and sometimes even good slams which you couldnt have found in the natural way. And always the 2D opener is playing the contract which is obviously very good.
Only disadvantage is that if youre partner has 0-5 HCP that you have to play 2NT at least. or 2S if partner got them. And the system is pretty complex so you have to study it and use it often to do it by heart. ( hopefully it was the right expression: learning by heart i mean )

But you dont play this convention because of the 2D opening much more because of the follow ups after 1m-1M-2NT. You can describe your hands way better but its up to you how you play it.

[gmb2014]

Botkin’s 2 diamond opener (Modeled after the Mexican 2 diamond)

2 diamonds opener is an 18-19 point notrump type hand with no 5 card major and at least 2 cards in each suit.
Responses
Responder is captain and will set contract or ask for aces with 4 clubs which is Gerber.
All 2 level responses are transfers, 3 Clubs is Stayman, 3 Diamonds is transfer to Hearts.
A jump is to play i.e. drop dead.
2 spades transferring to 2NT is also for a bust hand.