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Revised Keri

#1 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-November-23, 15:39

Rather than send out umpteen copies of the revised Keri. Here it is.
Those who have played this style will recognise the major changes are in the 1N 2S section and continuations

3a. 1NT-2C = puppet to 2D
1NT-2C = puppet to 2D. Either invitational, or D, or strong. Then:
2D = usual response. Then
2M = natural, 4 or 5 M, invitational.
2NT = natural, no major, invitational.
3m = natural, 6m, invitational. New suit = stopper ask, then 4m = bail out.
3H up = FG, 5+D.
2M = 5 card suit, min. Then
2NT = relay for asc doubleton, 3M = S/T, ask for controls. 3m = invitational, 6m.
2NT = 6D, min. Then 3C = asks for desc frag, 3D = S/O, 3M = nat, F, 5 card suit.
3C = 6C, min. Then 3D = asks for desc fragment, 3M = nat, F, 5 card suit.

3b.1NT-2C; 2D-2M
1NT-2C; 2D:
2H = 4H/5H - natural, invitational. May have 4S only if 5H4S.
Pass = min, 3-4 in suit
3H = max, FG; 3H, no 5OM 4H = max, 4H
2S = min, 4(+)Ss, 2Hs 3S = max, FG; 4Ss, 2Hs
2NT = min, 3-S2H 3NT = max, 3-S2H
3C = min/med strength, 4H, 4432 3D = max 5S2H33.
2S = 4S/5S - natural, invitational. Denies 4H. Then as over 2H.

3d.1NT-2C; 2D-3H up
1NT-2C; 2D:
3H/3S = FG, 4M 5+D: New suit = 1st/2nd control for major; 4D sets Ds
3NT = mild slam interest, 5332 shape on Ds
4NT = strong slam interest, 5332. If proceeding, 5<any> = 5-suit or v. strong 4-suit.
5NT = 5332, pick a slam.
4D = sets Ds; asks range, RKCB if max.
4C/H/S = Void splinter, Ds set.
1st step is poor fit. Other = exclusion RKCB responses.

3e. 1NT-2D = transfer to 2H
1NT-2D = transfer to 2H (may have only 4H only if rebid 2S or 3NT.)

Super accepts:
2NT = 4H, 1HH, 2½-3 instant tricks outside H, inv 3NT
{i.e. a perfect 1NT opening with 1 honour. Adjust outside tricks upward for 1NT overcalls or rebids.}
3D = retransfer
new suit = stopper ask: 4H with 2HH, 1½-2 instant tricks outside, inv to 3NT
3D (or 4D if nec) = retransfer
3H = inv to 4H, typically weak shortage in one of the outside suits
2H = no superaccept.

3f. Invitational continuations after 1NT-2D; 2H
1NT-2D; 2H:
2S = 4S4H, 5S4H or 5S5H, invitational only
Pass = min, 3+S 3S = max, 3S
2NT = min, no fit for either major 3NT = max, no fit
3H = min, 4H 3C = med fit, 4H
4M = max, 4+M 3D = med fit, 4S
3H = 6+H, inv(+).

3g. GF continuations after 1NT-2D; 2H
1NT-2D; 2H:
2NT = FG, exactly 5H, denies 4OM, 5m, or 0544. (So, no void.) Then:
3C = denies 3+H, asks. Then
3D / 3H / 3S = asc singleton,
3NT = none (5332 or 54m22).
3H = agrees H, strong or weak. Then new suit = singleton, slam try; 3NT = OTP.

3m = nat. FG, 55 or 64. Then natural.

3S = 4(+)S, 5+H, FG:
4H / 4S = weak preference
4C / 4D = strong preference, agreeing H / S. Then control-bids.
3NT = no fit for either major.
4m = nat, probably 5431.
4H = 4S6H, not a slam try
4S = 5S6H, slam try
4NT = RKCB on H (the longer suit)
5NT = pick a slam - 4522 shape

3NT = 4H, choice of contract.

4C / 4D / 4S = void splinter, Hs set. Then: step 1 = bad fit, others = RKCB reply
4NT = quantitative, 5332 (for RKCB, use 1NT : 4C, 4H : 4NT)
3j. 1NT-2H = transfer to 2S
2H = transfer to S. Then as over 1NT-2D; 2H. (Retransfer suit is H, not D.)

3k. 1NT-2S = forcing Stayman, or single suited slam try
2S = puppet to 2NT. Forcing Stayman, or 6+ card single suited slam interest. Over 2NT:
3C = single suited in any suit, slam interest. Opener puppets with 3D, then:
3H / 3S / 3NT / 4C = art, asc suits, RKCB (without range). Then after RKCB resp:
3NT / 4NT = to play if suit is a minor.
Others = suit asks.
3D = 4+H, not 4S unless interested in slam. Then:
3H / 3NT = prepared / not prepared to play 4H opposite good 5 card suit. Then:
3NT (or pass) = 4333, 4H = 5 card suit, others = natural, 4432, slam interest.
3H = 4+S, not 4H. Then as above.
3S = slam interest, no 4 card major. 4333 or 4432 in minor(s). Then natural.
3NT = 44 in majors, no slam interest.

3m. 1NT-2NT = transfer to 3C
2NT = demands 3C, used for signoff in clubs or for C 2-suiters. Over 3C:
3D = both minors
3M = stopper ask
3H up = 5+C: analogous to the auctions 1NT-2C, 2D-3H up.

3n. 1NT-3x = transfer splinters
3C - 3S = FG, shows 0-1 in next suit along (Can use 1NT : 3H / 3S even with 3-card major if prepared to play 4-3 fit.)
Bid the shortage = suggests 3NT (opp singleton) or 5 of a minor (opp void).
Bid another suit = natural
3NT = short suit well stopped and no major suit interest
Responder’s later bid of short suit = slam try, showing void, agrees last suit.
First step = no interest; others = exclusion RKCB

3p. Other responses to 1NT
4C/4D = transfers to 4H/4S (then 4NT RKCB)
1NT : 4H/4S = to play; must be passed
1NT : 4NT = inv, probably 4333.

3q. If they interfere after 1NT
Over X of 1NT:
if double = art: Ignore:
system in full but redouble suggests penalties. Double after redouble = penalties.
If double = penalties (direct or in passout seat):
XX = puppet to 2C; Stop Sign. Then: 2x = to play (1 suiter). 2NT/3x = FG.
2C / 2D / 2H = P/C (this suit plus higher, or 4333); then XX = T/O.
2S = any 5-5, game inv. 2NT accepts, 3x = weak.
2NT = FG 2 suiter. 3x = PRE.

If RHO doubles our 2C response:
XX = offer to play,
pass = no C stopper. Then XX to continue as normal or bid to scramble,
accept transfer or bid higher = C stopper.

If RHO doubles our transfer,
XX = offer to play,
pass = 2 card support. Then XX to continue as normal or bid to scramble,
accept transfer = 3+ support.

1NT (they overcall):
T/O X of their suit at 2 & 3 level, pass & later X = T/O, bids at 2 level = NF
1NT (2C artificial): System on
over 2D/2H/2S overcall, 2NT up = Rubensohl, 4m = Leaping Michaels.
2NT thru 3H = transfers
transferring into their suit shows a major and asks for stopper (cue denies)
3S = stopper ask, no major

3r. Rubensohl over their Overcall
This is a method of making both weak and strong bids over 2 level competition.
This applies only if we open / overcall / rebid 1NT and they overcall 2D/2H/2S.

Over 1NT (2H=nat):
X = T/O. Then
New suit rebid = nat, F (probably 5), unless equal level conversion
3H = FG, asks stop
2S = nat, NF.
2NT » 3H = transfer to 3C » 3S, any strength. (Not into their suit – see below.)
if opener accepts transfer, responder’s rebid = FG.
3D = asks for stopper and promises 4S:
3H = no STOP.
Other bids = nat, STOP.
3S =FG, no 4(O)M, no STOP
3NT=FG, no 4(O)M, STOP
Similarly over other overcalls.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#2 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2004-November-23, 15:55

Is anyone else shocked that 2 isn't automatic? It seems this changes the nature of a lot of the auctions.

My regular partner, who worships at the Church of Klinger had an identity crisis when I showed this today at lunch.

I'm not sure I like it as much as the "old" Keri. It seems Klinger wanted to add it the 'flexibility' of showing a 6 card minor. I've pretty much given up on the idea.
"Phil" on BBO
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#3 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-November-23, 16:20

rdk is playing that 1N includes ALL balanced hands with 5332 shapes, and also some 6223 shapes with a minor.

His reason for allowing NTrumper another option rather than the automatic 2D is to cater for the above possibilities. eg one of the problems was
1N 2C
2D 2S
2N
where you miss your 5-3 H fit. Granted, Phil, anyone else who opens 1N with this shape is in the same boat.

I don't know, but if you like I will email rdk today and ask him for the exact reasons and how he and Bruce Neill find the revised version. Who knows, Phil, maybe it was Bruce's idea, though I doubt that as I notice that rdk is playing a similar structure with Zolly Nagy.
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#4 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2004-November-23, 16:56

Thanks Ron, I'll be interested in what he says. My gut reaction was that he had a partner who wanted to open 6 card minors but that appears not to be the case. The 1N - 2C - 2D - 2S auction is awkward certainly, but it seems you are in unfamilar territory after 1N-2C-3 minor, as the Keri bidder can have so many different hand types, although, granted a 4-4 fit is impossible at this stage of the auction.
"Phil" on BBO
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#5 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-November-23, 18:53

OK here is Ron Klinger's reply regarding

1N 2D and following

"The 2M and 3m replies are always minimums and the idea is that if 2C is intended as an invitation, opener intends to reject it, and find a safe haven (like 2M rather than 2NT, etc.) while if 2C is a sign-off in diamonds, opener either prefers to be in 2M or is prepared to hear 3D.

The whole structure after 1NT has been changed dramatically and is not recognisable from any standard viewpoint (but it is highly effective)."

So I guess what this means is that with a maximum hand, (or a hand unsuitable for other action), 1NT opener accepts the puppet to 2D and with a minimum and a 5 card M or a 6 card m bids that suit. Makes sense as this probably has a better play than 2N.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#6 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2004-November-23, 21:43

This is a great post by ron. I have tried to indent it to ease reading. To be sure not to mess anything up, I did this in this reply. This is copied directly from above, with indents added.

3a. 1NT-2C = puppet to 2D
1NT-2C = puppet to 2D. Either invitational, or D, or strong. Then:
     2D = usual response. Then
         2M = natural, 4 or 5 M, invitational.
         2NT = natural, no major, invitational.
         3m = natural, 6m, invitational. New suit = stopper ask, then 4m = bail out.
         3H up = FG, 5+D.
     2M = 5 card suit, min. Then
         2NT = relay for asc doubleton, 3M = S/T, ask for controls. 3m = invitational, 6m.
         2NT = 6D, min. Then 3C = asks for desc frag, 3D = S/O, 3M = nat, F, 5 card suit.
         3C = 6C, min. Then 3D = asks for desc fragment, 3M = nat, F, 5 card suit.

3b.1NT-2C; 2D-2M
1NT-2C; 2D:
     2H = 4H/5H - natural, invitational. May have 4S only if 5H4S.
         Pass = min, 3-4 in suit
         3H = max, FG; 3H, no 5OM 4H = max, 4H
         2S = min, 4(+)Ss, 2Hs     3S = max, FG; 4Ss, 2Hs
         2NT = min, 3-S2H          3NT = max, 3-S2H
         3C = min/med strength, 4H, 4432 3D = max 5S2H33.
     2S = 4S/5S - natural, invitational. Denies 4H. Then as over 2H.

3d.1NT-2C; 2D-3H up
1NT-2C; 2D:
    3H/3S = FG, 4M 5+D: New suit = 1st/2nd control for major; 4D sets Ds
    3NT = mild slam interest, 5332 shape on Ds
    4NT = strong slam interest, 5332. If proceeding, 5<any> = 5-suit or v. strong 4-suit.
    5NT = 5332, pick a slam.
    4D = sets Ds; asks range, RKCB if max.
    4C/H/S = Void splinter, Ds set.
    1st step is poor fit. Other = exclusion RKCB responses.

3e. 1NT-2D = transfer to 2H
1NT-2D = transfer to 2H (may have only 4H only if rebid 2S or 3NT.)

    Super accepts:
    2NT = 4H, 1HH, 2½-3 instant tricks outside H, inv 3NT
{i.e. a perfect 1NT opening with 1 honour. Adjust outside tricks upward for 1NT overcalls or rebids.}
    3D = retransfer
    new suit = stopper ask: 4H with 2HH, 1½-2 instant tricks outside, inv to 3NT
    3D (or 4D if nec) = retransfer
    3H = inv to 4H, typically weak shortage in one of the outside suits
    2H = no superaccept.

3f. Invitational continuations after 1NT-2D; 2H
1NT-2D; 2H:
    2S = 4S4H, 5S4H or 5S5H, invitational only
    Pass = min, 3+S        3S = max, 3S
    2NT = min, no fit for either major        3NT = max, no fit
    3H = min, 4H        3C = med fit, 4H
    4M = max, 4+M        3D = med fit, 4S
    3H = 6+H, inv(+).

3g. GF continuations after 1NT-2D; 2H
1NT-2D; 2H:
    2NT = FG, exactly 5H, denies 4OM, 5m, or 0544. (So, no void.) Then:
    3C = denies 3+H, asks. Then
    3D / 3H / 3S = asc singleton,
    3NT = none (5332 or 54m22).
    3H = agrees H, strong or weak. Then new suit = singleton, slam try; 3NT = OTP.

3m = nat. FG, 55 or 64. Then natural.

    3S = 4(+)S, 5+H, FG:
    4H / 4S = weak preference
    4C / 4D = strong preference, agreeing H / S. Then control-bids.
    3NT = no fit for either major.
    4m = nat, probably 5431.
    4H = 4S6H, not a slam try
    4S = 5S6H, slam try
    4NT = RKCB on H (the longer suit)
    5NT = pick a slam - 4522 shape

3NT = 4H, choice of contract.

    4C / 4D / 4S = void splinter, Hs set. Then: step 1 = bad fit, others = RKCB reply
    4NT = quantitative, 5332 (for RKCB, use 1NT : 4C, 4H : 4NT)
    3j. 1NT-2H = transfer to 2S
    2H = transfer to S. Then as over 1NT-2D; 2H. (Retransfer suit is H, not D.)

3k. 1NT-2S = forcing Stayman, or single suited slam try
2S = puppet to 2NT. Forcing Stayman, or 6+ card single suited slam interest. Over 2NT:
    3C = single suited in any suit, slam interest. Opener puppets with 3D, then:
        3H / 3S / 3NT / 4C = art, asc suits, RKCB (without range). Then after RKCB resp:
        3NT / 4NT = to play if suit is a minor.
    Others = suit asks.
        3D = 4+H, not 4S unless interested in slam. Then:
        3H / 3NT = prepared / not prepared to play 4H opposite good 5 card suit. Then:
        3NT (or pass) = 4333,         4H = 5 card suit, others = natural, 4432, slam interest.
        3H = 4+S, not 4H. Then as above.
        3S = slam interest, no 4 card major. 4333 or 4432 in minor(s). Then natural.
        3NT = 44 in majors, no slam interest.

3m. 1NT-2NT = transfer to 3C
2NT = demands 3C, used for signoff in clubs or for C 2-suiters. Over 3C:
        3D = both minors
        3M = stopper ask
        3H up = 5+C: analogous to the auctions 1NT-2C, 2D-3H up.

3n. 1NT-3x = transfer splinters
3C - 3S = FG, shows 0-1 in next suit along (Can use 1NT : 3H / 3S even with 3-card major if prepared to play 4-3 fit.)
    Bid the shortage = suggests 3NT (opp singleton) or 5 of a minor (opp void).
    Bid another suit = natural
    3NT             = short suit well stopped and no major suit interest
    Responder’s later bid of short suit = slam try, showing void, agrees last suit.
    First step = no interest; others = exclusion RKCB

3p. Other responses to 1NT
    4C/4D = transfers to 4H/4S (then 4NT RKCB)
    1NT : 4H/4S = to play; must be passed
    1NT : 4NT = inv, probably 4333.

3q. If they interfere after 1NT
    Over X of 1NT:
        if double = art: Ignore:
system in full but redouble suggests penalties. Double after redouble = penalties.
    If double = penalties (direct or in passout seat):
        XX = puppet to 2C; Stop Sign. Then: 2x = to play (1 suiter). 2NT/3x = FG.
        2C / 2D / 2H = P/C (this suit plus higher, or 4333); then XX = T/O.
        2S = any 5-5, game inv. 2NT accepts, 3x = weak.
        2NT = FG 2 suiter. 3x = PRE.

If RHO doubles our 2C response:
    XX = offer to play,
    pass = no C stopper. Then XX to continue as normal or bid to scramble,
    accept transfer or bid higher = C stopper.

If RHO doubles our transfer,
    XX = offer to play,
    pass = 2 card support. Then XX to continue as normal or bid to scramble,
    accept transfer = 3+ support.

1NT (they overcall):
    T/O X of their suit at 2 & 3 level, pass & later X = T/O, bids at 2 level = NF
    1NT (2C artificial): System on
    over 2D/2H/2S overcall, 2NT up = Rubensohl, 4m = Leaping Michaels.
    2NT thru 3H = transfers
    transferring into their suit shows a major and asks for stopper (cue denies)
    3S = stopper ask, no major

3r. Rubensohl over their Overcall
This is a method of making both weak and strong bids over 2 level competition.
This applies only if we open / overcall / rebid 1NT and they overcall 2D/2H/2S.

Over 1NT (2H=nat):
    X = T/O. Then
        New suit rebid = nat, F (probably 5), unless equal level conversion
        3H = FG, asks stop
        2S = nat, NF.
        2NT » 3H = transfer to 3C » 3S, any strength. (Not into their suit – see below.)
        if opener accepts transfer, responder’s rebid = FG.
            3D = asks for stopper and promises 4S:
            3H = no STOP.
            Other bids = nat, STOP.
        3S =FG, no 4(O)M, no STOP
        3NT=FG, no 4(O)M, STOP
Similarly over other overcalls.
--Ben--

#7 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-November-23, 22:51

Thanks a lot Ben. I posted it in a hurry from work and really did not have time to format it all as the boss was lurking around. :)
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#8 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2004-November-24, 03:58

Thanks a lot, Ron. I'll dissect this after I manage to take some rest from last week-end's marathon lol.
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Posted 2004-November-24, 03:59

Did you play in the YC?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#10 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2004-November-24, 04:40

No, I played a long preliminary round for the national team trials. Finished 2nd btw :)
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#11 User is offline   Flame 

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Posted 2004-November-25, 00:12

I see some clues that this keri was designed to be able to handle a widther then normal 1NT.
Is there something into it ? i got some ideas about it.
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Posted 2004-November-25, 00:14

No 12-14 or 15-17 are his current ranges.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#13 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2004-November-25, 06:59

Ron / Free

I'd be interested in switching to the revised Keri response structure, especially now that MOSCITO is opening 1NT with a 5 card major.
Alderaan delenda est
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#14 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-November-25, 10:59

hrothgar, on Nov 25 2004, 01:59 PM, said:

Ron / Free

I'd be interested in switching to the revised Keri response structure, especially now that MOSCITO is opening 1NT with a 5 card major.

HUH? :) 5 card Major 1NT openings in MOSCITO??? :blink:
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#15 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2004-November-25, 11:16

Free, on Nov 25 2004, 07:59 PM, said:

hrothgar, on Nov 25 2004, 01:59 PM, said:

Ron / Free

I'd be interested in switching to the revised Keri response structure, especially now that MOSCITO is opening 1NT with a 5 card major.

HUH? :) 5 card Major 1NT openings in MOSCITO??? :blink:

Uh, yeah... About that.

There is growing consensus that balanced hands should be treated like balanced hands regardless of whether or not they hold a 5 card major...

It makes life MUCH easier during all sorts of sequences.

For example, suppose the auction starts:

1 - 1
1NT - 2
2

1 = 4+ hearts
1NT = Either 4 hearts OR balanced
2 = Balanced

MUCH better to know that parter has 13-14 HCP rather than
Partner has 13-13 HCP if he has 4 hearts or 11+ - 14 HCP if he has 5332
Alderaan delenda est
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#16 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2004-November-25, 12:08

Thanks Ron. Looks to me like this revision is intended to give less info to the defence. The old 1N:2, 2:2NT sequence was horrible at times - Opener disclosing whether he had a 4333 or not when there was no fit anyway, and showing 4 cards in the major that responder wasn't interested in.

Flame, why do you think this version is more suited for wide-ranging NTs? IMO the ability to invite and play 2M make either version of Keri more useful opposite a four point range. This version would seem more useful for strong NTers, who have more reason to open 1N with a 5 card major or 6 card minor.

I'm not convinced about opening 5cMs in Moscito, but I can see the advantages.
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#17 User is offline   Flame 

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Posted 2004-November-25, 19:35

MickyB, on Nov 25 2004, 01:08 PM, said:

Flame, why do you think this version is more suited for wide-ranging NTs? IMO the ability to invite and play 2M make either version of Keri more useful opposite a four point range. This version would seem more useful for strong NTers, who have more reason to open 1N with a 5 card major or 6 card minor.

Some ressons including the resson you gave.
in keri and especially this version you get sometimes two apportunities to ask for min/max instead of the normal 1, this works in the 1nt-2c-2d-2h where we can pass or bid 4h or bid something in the middle.
In this new keri version, you also have 1nt-2c-2M which show minimum and have another way to show max, after 1nt-2c-2M you could have another apportunity to check for min/max, this is not done in this version because there is no need with the current width.
Also you can see in many sequences that instead of normal rkcb there is a min/max and then rkcb again one more then normal width ask.
What im saying is that this system got more power then normal systems and could handle a larger witdh which other systems couldnt.
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#18 User is offline   Flame 

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Posted 2004-November-25, 19:38

I wonder if someone can explain the philosofy beind the responses to transfer, showing 1/2 honors and count of quick tricks outside the trump, what will i be looking for to play 3nt instead of 4M.
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#19 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2004-November-25, 21:44

Flame, on Nov 26 2004, 01:38 AM, said:

I wonder if someone can explain the philosofy beind the responses to transfer, showing 1/2 honors and count of quick tricks outside the trump, what will i be looking for to play 3nt instead of 4M.

You will be looking for 5 tricks in the major and 4 quick tricks outside and every suit stopped.

If your tricks are not all quick tricks and one suit is only singly stopped you will be better off in the major.

If one suit isn't stopped but has xxx opposite xxx then 3NT may also be the contract to look for if there are exactly 9 quick tricks in the other suit.

Eric
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#20 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2004-November-26, 04:13

I'm not convinced keri super-accepts are superior to other methods. I have the impression the "magic 9-trick-only 3NT game" happens less frequently than the "magic no-wastage 4M game", so there might be a case for changing that bit of the system.
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