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1D-2C as GF 2/1 GF by audrey grant eric rodwell

#1 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 10:17

1-2 is given as GF in 2 over 1 Game Force by Audrey Grant and Eric Rodwell.
However they dont discuss further bidding.
Any suggestions on finding information about continuations?
They do suggest a 1-3 as INV with 6+ which makes some sense.
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#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 10:29

I don't know about "finding" like in published stuff. But, I will IM you in a little bit with a structure produced a very long time ago by a "clicque" on the West Coast, which has proved effective.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#3 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 11:24

View Poststeve2005, on 2012-September-02, 10:17, said:

1-2 is given as GF in 2 over 1 Game Force by Audrey Grant and Eric Rodwell.
However they dont discuss further bidding.
Any suggestions on finding information about continuations?
They do suggest a 1-3 as INV with 6+ which makes some sense.


Mikw Lawrence has published one, and it's the one I prefer. I'll be happy to email it to you, plz use the email form on my profile page.
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#4 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 12:43

I like Max Hardy's treatment ( from his TWO OVER ONE GAME FORCE book ).
Most "here" tend to "poo poo" his methods, but the 1D - 2C! treatment is logical and straight forward.

The first obligation for Opener is to rebid his 5+ suit:
1D - 2C! = 5+ , does not deny a 4 card Major;
........... planning to show the 4 card Major next if he has one .
2D = 5+ but does not deny a 4 card Major; and the entire 2-level is still available to find a 4-4 Major fit.

whereas:
1D - 2C!
2H/S = 4 card Major and not more than 4 cards and announces that the hand is not suited for a rebid in NT.

But, if Opener's hand were balanced and more suited to declaring NT, he would rebid NT with minimum values EVEN if he held one or both 4 card Majors. Again, if a 4-4 major suit exists, it will be shown by Responder's rebid
Don Stenmark
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 12:58

Hardy's stuff was a reasonable start upon which to build. If first obligation is to raise clubs, since it is always a real suit, and 2nd obligation is 5+ diamonds; then more descriptive things can be compacted into opener's first rebid making auctions quite smooth.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#6 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 14:50

Flem/Steve: I get no notification or history when I reply to PC's, so unknown if you recieved.

I am aguahombre2@yahoo.com (agua with a G).
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#7 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 15:39

hmm 3 replies and I already have question.
2 promising 5, while nice what about a 3-3-3-4 hand with the wrong pt count to bid 2N(for me 11-12) or 3N (for me not even option as using for 3-3-4-3 14-15 hcp but assume either 13-15 or 16-18)
So 19+ hcp and either 13-15 or 16-18 hcp i see wanting to bid 2 on 4 cards.
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#8 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 16:28

I like and recommend a "Golady" approach here. 2C as GF with any shape not including a 5-card major. Artificial. Opener, roughly, uses transfer/one-under/submarine rebids.

For example, you might have an auction where 1D-2C-2D-2H, hearts agreed at two-level with GF established. Works best if 1D opening unbalanced, though.
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#9 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 16:40

View Poststeve2005, on 2012-September-02, 15:39, said:

hmm 3 replies and I already have question.
2 promising 5, while nice what about a 3-3-3-4 hand with the wrong pt count to bid 2N(for me 11-12) or 3N (for me not even option as using for 3-3-4-3 14-15 hcp but assume either 13-15 or 16-18)
So 19+ hcp and either 13-15 or 16-18 hcp i see wanting to bid 2 on 4 cards.

I let it "slide" to 4 cards with good GF values .
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#10 User is offline   CarlRitner 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 16:47

Mike Lawrence's 2/1 CD shows continuations for both the older Lawrence style (non-GF) and the newer Lawrence style (95% GF). 95% means you can stop in 4m if you do not find a fit and notrump looks not so good.

Lawrence's 2/1 book touted the older style. Lawrence today says he prefers the newer "GF" style. The CD is, in my opinion, awesome.
Cheers,
Carl
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#11 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 17:06

Doing it with 4C doesn't seem to matter, even if opener's first obligation is to support. The auction doesn't "bounce around", and you won't get past 3N unless in the slam range or Opener has a whole bunch of clubs.
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#12 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2012-September-02, 17:33

View Poststeve2005, on 2012-September-02, 15:39, said:

hmm 3 replies and I already have question.
2 promising 5, while nice what about a 3-3-3-4 hand with the wrong pt count to bid 2N(for me 11-12) or 3N (for me not even option as using for 3-3-4-3 14-15 hcp but assume either 13-15 or 16-18)
So 19+ hcp and either 13-15 or 16-18 hcp i see wanting to bid 2 on 4 cards.


Personally, i like 2nt forcing, 12-14 or 18-19, and 3n 15-17, along with strong jump shifts. Playing "standard" 2/1, 1d-3n is 12-15 and isn't it usually 1D-4N with 16-17? with more, there is probaly not an immediate desriptive call playing WJS, but it usually won't matter what you do if O's rebid is descriptive....Nothing rreally wrong with 2C on 4 with a big hand, but there are some balanced hands where I'd like to be able to raise to 3C on HHx: xxx xxx AKJT KQx. Sometimes in Lawrence's version you need to bid 2N without both Ms stopped -- the 3-3-4-3 "death hand", Kxx xxx AKJT Qxx --, but xxx xxx is a bit much for me, even as a committed WNTer.
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#13 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2012-September-03, 02:22

I like to play a homegrown developed set of responses:

1-2: game forcing
1-2: inverted, no 4 card major
1-2: balanced invitational hand without 4 card major and clubs longer than diamonds
1-3: at least a good 6 card club suit, no 4 card major, invitational

Over 1-2:

2: all balanced or semi-balanced hands, does not yet promise extra length in diamonds.
2: 4 cards and unbalanced (singleton or void in black suit)
2: 4 cards and unbalanced (singleton or void in hearts or clubs)
2NT: artificial, at least 6 cards in diamonds, unbalanced (singleton or void somewhere)
3: 4 clubs, unbalanced (singleton or void in a major). Balanced club support bids 2 first.
3: good 6 card diamond suit, semi-balanced (6322), 15-17.

Rainer Herrmann
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#14 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2012-September-03, 14:19

Posting my first stab at 2C GF (expecting some goofs as 1st try)
for me 1 promises 4+ denies 5+major and 18-20 hcp balanced is opened 1
and 16-18 hcp 2-2-4-5 with bare majors are opened 1 rebidding 3n over 2
I presume in std you would rebid 3N with 18-19 so switch that

After 1♦-2♣: 5+♣ (or 4♣ balanced 13+ hcp if 13-15 hcp has suit unstopped) 13+ pts GF
2♦ = 5+♦ may have 4M but denies 4+♣
>>>2♥/♠ = 4♥/♠ (rarely 5+)
>>>>>> 2♠ = 4♠
>>>>>>2N = OM stopped
>>>>>> 3♣ = 3♣
>>>>>> 3♦ = 6♦
>>>>>>3♥/♠ = raise with 4♥/♠ (rarely 5+)
>>> 2N = ♥/♠ stopped, ♦ shortage or 16+ hcp bal as with13-15 bal would have bid 3N
initially
>>> 3♣ = 6+♣
>>> 3♦ = 3+ ♦
>>> 3♥/♠ = splinter 0-1 ♥/♠ 4+♦ 17+ pts
>>> 3N = 16-18 hcp balanced majors well stopped
2♥ = 4♥ 4♦ may be 4-4-4-1
>>> 2♠ = 4+♠
>>> 2N = ♠ stopper
>>> 3♣ = waiting
>>> 3♦ = 4+♦
>>> 3♥ = raise 4♥ (rarely 5+)
>>> 3♠ = splinter in support of ♥- 4♥ (rarely 5+)
>>> 3N = 16-18 hcp balanced ♠ well stopped
2♠ = 4♠ 4♦
>>> 2N = ♥ stopper
>>> 3♣ = waiting
>>> 3♦ = 4♦
>>> 3♥ = splinter in support of ♠-4♠ (rarely 5+)
>>> 3♠ = raise 4♠ (rarely 5+)
>>> 3N = 16-18 hcp balanced ♥ well stopped
2N = 12-14 hcp balanced 3-3-4-3
>>> 3♣ = sets ♣ as trump, but opener shows stoppers not giving up on 3N
>>> 3♦ = sets ♦ as trump, but opener shows stoppers not giving up on 3N
>>> 3♥/♠ = stopper
>>> 3N = ♥ & ♠ stopper TP
3♣ = 4+♣ 4+♦ has priority over a 2♦ rebid
>>> 3♦ = 4+♦
>>> 3 suit show stoppers
>>> 3N = ♥ & ♠ stopper 16-18 hcp balanced NF
3♦ = 6+ solid ♦
3♥ = 16+ pts 4+♣ 0-1♥ splinter, responder needs good stoppers to bid 3N GF
3♠ = 16+ pts 4+♣ 0-1♠ splinter, responder needs good stoppers to bid 3N GF
3N = 16-18 hcp 2-2-4-5 with poor major suit stoppers, reverse in std
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#15 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 16:21

CURIOUS 3
as an ode to Rodwell
I realized there is a problem, as is common in 2/1 structure, you don't have a way to express extra values at a low level, as all bids are forcing.
sure after 1-2-2-3 responder has denied a minimum poor fitting hand which would bid 4 and similar over a 2 bid.
However I would like a way to express extra values at a low level.

Curious 3:
1-2-2-3
1-2-2-3
1-2-2NT-3
1-2-3-3
all express extra values 16+ pts and sets trump as the last bid suit or NT in the case of over 2N. Of course it is still possible to end up in 6N as in any slam sequence.
As you are giving up the ability to support , if you have 4+ even with 5+ you must bid 2 or 1M with (40)45 distribution.
After 3 cue-bidding is commenced, showing A,K, singleton and voids.

any thoughts
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