[CSGibson]

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Playing against the best pair in your area, a canape precision pair, the auction goes 2C (10-15 HCP, 6+ clubs, 2 of the top 3 in clubs, could have a 4 card major) - pass - 5C (wide ranging) to you. You are playing with an expert partner, no special agreements covering this auction.

[chasetb]

Ouch, what else is there to say? I can tell you though that by passing up 3NT and not even trying for slam, they probably aren't making it; if they are, it's a fix for sure (I was fixed a few times today). However, if we need perfect defense to set it, I don't see it happening.

I am going to pass here - if partner has no defense, I expect a pull, then we can hopefully find a fit. Like you though, I am looking forward to opinions by people who have dealt with this situation a lot - while I play Precision, I haven't played more than 5 times combined against it or Polish.

[gszes]

it is difficult to imagine rho bidding 5c with much power though they might with shape
say x x QJTxx Kxxxxx

sigh its only 1 board--------the auction seems to indicate p is extremely short in clubs
they also rate to have around 10 hcp yet they faile to act. IMO p is something like
5260 5350 3550 2560 and since their suits had no body they were stuck over 2c.

If we are right our side should have decent play for 6 of wherever our major suit fit
is. I would bid 6c and convert 6d to 6h.

[mcphee]

Here they are at the 5 level and we have a hand that could play really well, providing partner has a 4 card fit. I bet he does. Playing pairs we are a little behind the rest because of the 2C opening. Partner can not have much really as they have short C and failed to act.

I could double. If partner bids D i can bid H. If they pass maybe they will lead a D and we get a plus. If they bid a major things are great. I do not have the values for action, but this feels like a time to step out. An honor card in each major might just put a big smile on your face.

Double, I am aware I do not have the goodies and this may indeed be horrible. Isn't double the answer to all bidding problems?

Pass is second choice.

[gnasher]

5♠. My suits are the wrong way around for double followed by 5♥, and anyway there might not be a "followed by". At this level he won't routinely take it out with a 4441 or 3451 shape.

[Quantumcat]

Partner couldn't come up with a takeout double or a 2♦ overcall, even though he should really have the shape for one of those. I reckon this is a hand where both sides can make at the 4-level but not the 5-level. They probably have the slight majority of the points, say 21-23 (since pard did not bid, and there was no try for slam or 3NT), but we have better shape, and both sides can make at the 4-level but not the 5-level. So I'll pass and try and defend well.

[Codo]

I double. Partner will often pass, but they will often fail to make it anyway.
And if he bids and I reach a 5-3 instead of a 6-3: I can think about worse contracts.

[FrancesHinden]

Quantumcat, on 2012-August-05, 18:48, said:

Partner couldn't come up with a takeout double or a 2♦ overcall, even though he should really have the shape for one of those. I reckon this is a hand where both sides can make at the 4-level but not the 5-level. They probably have the slight majority of the points, say 21-23 (since pard did not bid, and there was no try for slam or 3NT), but we have better shape, and both sides can make at the 4-level but not the 5-level. So I'll pass and try and defend well.

Deciding that both sides can make at the 4-level but not the 5-level seems a very precise analysis from a very random auction. I'd have thought it's quite possible both sides can make slam, and also quite possible neither side can make anything.

I'd bid 5S because it's more fun than passing.
I hate double; we don't have much defence & it's likely to end the auction when we don't want it to.

[CSGibson]

So here's approximately the complete hand:

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I decided to pass the west hand (in tempo according to both my memory and my opponents), then partner found a miraculous bid of 5H, which S doubled on general principle, saving me the trouble of deciding whether to raise to 6.

I thought they put it to us, but thinking about the hand later, it occurred to me that it may have been better for partner to overcall 2H initially, even though that may be interpreted as a more constructive auction. It certainly would have made things slightly easier to compete, though I suspect we would have been in 6H if I went super aggressive with my hand. Thoughts?

[akhare]

CSGibson, on 2012-August-06, 17:37, said:

So here's approximately the complete hand:

---

I decided to pass the west hand (in tempo according to both my memory and my opponents), then partner found a miraculous bid of 5H, which S doubled on general principle, saving me the trouble of deciding whether to raise to 6.

I thought they put it to us, but thinking about the hand later, it occurred to me that it may have been better for partner to overcall 2H initially, even though that may be interpreted as a more constructive auction. It certainly would have made things slightly easier to compete, though I suspect we would have been in 6H if I went super aggressive with my hand. Thoughts?

I think that 2♥ over 2♣ with that hand is a little bit of a stretch. I can see some merit for the call if the stiff was in the other black suit, but would still prefer to have at least the Q♦ to go along with the J (or a 7th♥).

Anyway, congratulations are due to your opponents for putting you in that position and to you for managing to pass in tempo.

As for 5♥, there's no arguing with success is there, especially when pard is kind enough not to hold the pointed suits ?

[Zelandakh]

An interesting question - what would everyone play a 3♥ overcall of this 2♣ opening to mean?

[helene_t]

Zelandakh, on 2012-August-07, 01:43, said:

An interesting question - what would everyone play a 3♥ overcall of this 2♣ opening to mean?

I think that it should be strong against this kind of 2♣ opening while it should be weak against a fantunes or EHAA 2♣.

The rationale is that when opener has described his hand accurately (as with this well-defined 2♣ opening), there is not much point for us in trying to messing up their auction, while at the same time it is important to describe our strong hands before they preempt (which they are likely to do).

If they open a less well-defined 2♣ (such as fantunes or EHAA) there is less risk of preemption and also there is more to gain from messing up their auction.

[han]

I agree with Frances's characterization of this auction and decision as random, and Quantumcat's guess that both sides can make 10 tricks comes from nowhere. I don't agree with the Brits about 5S though, I think it is too much (even though it could indeed be fun). Surely it will sometimes pay big, but I think that it doesn't pay often enough.

I think that partner certainly should have bid 2H over 2C. In my opinion it is extremely important to do so on a hand like this. Of course you will sometimes get too high when partner has points but a misfit. But bidding will gain much more frequently; by bidding good games, by competing for the partscore, and by getting the right lead against notrump.

I think that 5H over 5C was really bad.

[rmnka447]

Yeah, I'd like to have more points to bid with the East hand, but it is a 7 loser hand. Also, if opener and responder find a fit in responder's suit, I'd really like a Heart lead from partner.

So, especially at MPs, I think 2 ♥ is right with the East hand. You might run into the occasional buzzsaw, but it's only one board.

Given the actual auction, I'd probably pass but would be torn by really wanting to bid. Hopefully, I'd pass in tempo like Messr. Gibson and give partner a chance to act.

With competent defense, 5 ♣ should be down 3.

♥ A, ♥ 4 from West (suit preference)

♦ switch, ruff

♠ A

♠, ruff

♦, ruff

But that's not going to be good enough as over a natural bidding 1 ♣ opener, virtually all Easts will make a 1 ♥ overcall and East/West will find the ♥ game.

[gnasher]

Zelandakh, on 2012-August-07, 01:43, said:

An interesting question - what would everyone play a 3♥ overcall of this 2♣ opening to mean?

I normally play it as strong, because that's what I do over weak twos and it's easier to have a simple agreement.

However, I think a jump overcall should be weak, just as it is over a natural one-level opening. The opening hand isn't that well defined - if responder has a 4-, 5- or 6- card major he doesn't know whether he has a fit or not, and 10-15 is quite a wide range in high cards.