[jillybean]

1♠ 2N
3♦ 4N

3♦ is shortage, it's also an Ace. How do I now respond to the keycard ask?

[mr1303]

As you would normally. This is not exclusion.

[jillybean]

mr1303, on 2012-July-30, 16:31, said:

As you would normally. This is not exclusion.

Obviously this is not exclusion.
If I include the ♦Ace in the keycard response - how will partner work out which KC's I have?

[wank]

he won't, but most of the time he won't care.

[aguahombre]

The purpose of RKC is to discover whether the partnership is missing two keycards for a small slam or one KC for a grand --then, maybe specific Kings, but not specifically which of the five keys is missing.

If Partner needed different information from that, partner should have been doing something other than Wooding.

The typical situation where your concern about which Ace might be missing would be if partner has Wooded with an open suit (XX). If that is the concern, then discuss with him gently your objection to his doing that.

[ggwhiz]

I agree but add something to consider.

By agreement we treat stiff Ace or King as doubletons and alert as such. When the 2nt bidder has a source of tricks in ♦ here, showing shortness in the suit turns them off.

It sort of fits in with those that would choose to open 1nt with that holding.

[fromageGB]

I think that the answer is simply that in this shortage scenario you should never immediately ace ask. We have a "compulsory" non-serious 3NT/serious cue bid after a shortage, and when you cue the diamond partner knows you have either the ace or a void. Even though playing "1st or 2nd round controls" you don't cue a non-ace singleton, as partner knows that already. Then when partner ace asks, ignore that ace. He therefore knows how many keycards you have.

This doesn't work if the shortage is clubs, as a serious cue bid will leave you no room to show it. However, switch to serious 3NT here (or in any GF situation) and it's OK, or you could agree that 3M is serious and 3NT non-serious.

[jillybean]

ggwhiz, on 2012-July-31, 09:28, said:

By agreement we treat stiff Ace or King as doubletons and alert as such. When the 2nt bidder has a source of tricks in ♦ here, showing shortness in the suit turns them off.

Why? A stiff Ace is a lot different to a stiff King.

[ggwhiz]

jillybean, on 2012-July-31, 09:31, said:

Why? A stiff Ace is a lot different to a stiff King.

Personal preference after showing a stiff with a stiff King and turning pard off with holdings like AQx, AJxxx or QJ10x and enough in the other suits.