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All red from the club

#1 User is offline   kriegel 

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Posted 2012-July-11, 21:21

From tonight's matchpoint game. White vs red, dealer.



What is your opening bid?

Spoiler


Spoiler

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#2 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2012-July-11, 21:28

I think my options are 1d or 6d

I need to double check and see what I open with 9-4 hands.
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#3 User is offline   perko90 

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Posted 2012-July-11, 21:35

I think I would open 6

... and apparently regret it (I just read the spoiler)
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#4 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2012-July-11, 21:53

I would have followed your path, 1 and then 5 over partner's
Spoiler
. It's a very difficult hand, if partner bids hearts, can we make a double exclusion KC?

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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In all fields of endeavour emotion is the arch-enemy of judgement.

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#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 00:53

I think the options are 4NT (taking a chance on Q) and 2 (taking a chance that they can get together for 6). 6 as an opening seems bad to me and it is unlikely I can find out what I need to know after 1.
(-: Zel :-)
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#6 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 01:00

You have a 2 loser hand. So one way or another you probably want to end up in 5 if pard can't show much.

However, with KQxx, it's just possible that pard could show up with s and 6 comes into view.

Keep all options open by bidding 1 . You can always bid 5 later.
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#7 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 01:18

Oh yes, if playing gwnn's excellent system idea we could open this one 1NT. B-)
(-: Zel :-)
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#8 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 01:27

View PostZelandakh, on 2012-July-12, 00:53, said:

I think the options are 4NT (taking a chance on Q) and 2

What would you do if partner showed two aces?
If future responses could be on topic, i.e. comparing the two suggested systems, rather than some alternative nutjob method, that'd be appreciated, thanks. - MickyB
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#9 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 02:08

View Postgnasher, on 2012-July-12, 01:27, said:

What would you do if partner showed two aces?

That depends on the methods in use. Playing standard it's a guess - no problem there, probably everyone will be guessing on this hand. If playing one of the (rare) extensions where responses at the 6 level pinpoint the 2 aces then there may not be such a guess. Mostly though, it just offers one extra chance to find out a key point of information that is going to be very difficult otherwise. I cannot see any real downside of this over, for example, a direct 6, even if that were not offering partner the option to bid 7 with a top diamond honour.

Obviously the 3NT specific ace asking convention would be golden here since (I assume) the extended responses would be standard over that. On the flipside the opponents may well get involved when they are only coming in at the 4 level.
(-: Zel :-)
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#10 User is offline   lalldonn 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 05:07

I think what you did is fine. It seems weird to do so little with shape and strength like this, but that bid on your left really did make your hand worse, and it's easy to forget that your trumps aren't completely solid either. Even if they were you essentially have 3 heart losers to worry about and it's not at all clear two of them will vanish with LHO's bid.
"What's the big rebid problem? After 1♦ - 1♠, I can rebid 1NT, 2♠, or 2♦."
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#11 User is offline   kriegel 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 08:50

Thank you for the replies. But that's not the end of the story.

After
1 (2) 2 (Pass)
5 (Pass)

Partner bid 5(!). He obviously had a first-round heart control and was trying for seven. Thinking back, maybe I should just bid 7 myself, but I felt that even with a heart void (my LHO wouldn't make a vulnerable jump overcall on JTxxxx) I couldn't guarantee making seven, so I cuebid 6 and let partner make the final mistake. He bid 7 which ended the auction.

The combined hands were:


At the table, I just claimed, but unfortunately I had the beer card which I didn't notice.
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#12 User is offline   Statto 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 08:53

View Postgnasher, on 2012-July-12, 01:27, said:

View PostZelandakh, on 2012-July-12, 00:53, said:

I think the options are 4NT (taking a chance on Q) and 2

What would you do if partner showed two aces?

What if you open 4NT and partner shows A with 5, or A with 6 - assuming those are the responses?

4NT seems to only gain over 6 when partner has no aces. Though it's nice and pre-emptive against vul opps so that may be enough of a gain. They might also bid or double to give us extra bids...
A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem – Albert Einstein
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#13 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 12:17

our hand can easily be playable in 2 spots (hearts and dia) see no strong
reason to preempt here and arbitraily eliminate hearts from the bidding.

1d
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#14 User is offline   Statto 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 13:38

View Postgszes, on 2012-July-12, 12:17, said:

our hand can easily be playable in 2 spots (hearts and dia) see no strong
reason to preempt here and arbitraily eliminate hearts from the bidding.

Opponents' hands can easily be playable in 2 spots ( and )?
A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem – Albert Einstein
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#15 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 19:21

I think 6 is clear cut. Partner cannot have enough s to eliminate the risk of a ruff on opening lead against a contract. I count this hand as 1 loser not 2. Each remaining player has 1.33 cards, so we have a 10.33 fit. If partner has the right hand s/he can bid 7. If partner bids NT s/he better have the right cards...adjusting the strain is not what the opening bid suggests.
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#16 User is offline   mikl_plkcc 

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Posted 2012-July-12, 23:10

10 tricks in the hand. A sure 2 for me.

In the first spoiler, I bid 5.

I would not open this Acol 4NT, because I would not happy with 5 or 6 response. I cannot take the fourth heart as a winner in this hand.
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#17 User is offline   dkham 

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Posted 2012-July-13, 07:05

6 for me (before reading spoilers). Of course you have the playing strength for a 2 opener, but not much defence and would not be happy doubling the opponents at a high level.
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#18 User is offline   FM75 

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Posted 2012-July-13, 13:43

Precision 1 club forcing, expecting interference. Over 2 overcall, partner should show a positive response with 2. After an overcall we get 2 negative responses instead of just one, pass, and double, showing 0-3, and 4-7 hcp, but do not need them here. 3 will be an alpha trump asking bid. On the actual hand partner will show 4+ controls and no support, (Qxx is minimum support). A second ask will clarify the hand as lacking a first, second, or third round control in diamonds, i.e. 3 cards, in one step (4). That will establish trump, and can then ask about heart controls, discovering first round control. 7.
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#19 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2012-July-18, 20:21

Open 1, rebid 2. Presumably the opps will keep bidding - there are 26 black cards lurking out there somewhere. Continue competing and you will eventually get doubled. As long as you know your doubled scores and can make sure that your contract scores more than game (and hopefully closer to slam than game, so you can do better than any +500 or +800) - you will get a good result whether or not 6 makes.

Edit: On reading the spoiler my plan seems rather ruined - but I would rebid 4, hopefully this shows an invite to slam, without the HCP requirement of a 2 opening, and encourages pard to make a cuebid, or sign-off with no aces or singletons or anything else useful (he should realise he may as well throw KQJ and KQJ in the bin for all the good those HCP will do you). Superficially you'd think you then wouldn't get to slam when pard has a nice JT doubleton heart and a few small diamonds, but in this case you don't want to be - it will go A ... ruff. If he doesn't have the ace of hearts (which he probably doesn't, given you have the KQ and someone bid 2) you really want him to have a singleton heart AND a couple of trumps. With this he will gladly oblige you by cue-bidding hearts.
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#20 User is offline   the_clown 

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Posted 2012-July-20, 01:23

View Postkriegel, on 2012-July-12, 08:50, said:

Thank you for the replies. But that's not the end of the story.

After
1 (2) 2 (Pass)
5 (Pass)

Partner bid 5(!). He obviously had a first-round heart control and was trying for seven. Thinking back, maybe I should just bid 7 myself, but I felt that even with a heart void (my LHO wouldn't make a vulnerable jump overcall on JTxxxx) I couldn't guarantee making seven, so I cuebid 6 and let partner make the final mistake. He bid 7 which ended the auction.

The combined hands were:


At the table, I just claimed, but unfortunately I had the beer card which I didn't notice.


The beer card doesnt count when it is trumps
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