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2/1 auction A Ax Kxxx KQxxxx

#1 User is offline   Elianna 

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Posted 2012-June-28, 21:15



Playing 2/1, what would you bid now (and would have you bid something different otherwise)?

Assume 2S does not show extras, and 4th suit is still artificial in a GF auction. Otherwise you have not really had a detailed discussion and this involves two people from different countries, so don't assume American conventions.

What I did:
I bid 6H, because I wasn't sure that 4D set trump, and so didn't want to cue-bid or bid 4NT, and since I couldn't come up with an elegant way to diagnose the right contract at the table, I decided to take an aggressive guess.
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#2 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2012-June-28, 21:33

Pass now.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 01:13

Good job with your auction. Will assume partner got the message and chose to bail out. KQJX KTXXXX AX X?
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#4 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 07:46

I wonder this is a good situation to cue-bid a king. If p has a small doubleton the suit may not be controlled and if he has a singleton the king is nearly worthless. On the other hand, what else can we do to show a mild slam try in hearts? If that is the intention then Aqua must be right. We have told our story.

I might have bid 4NT or 5♥ over partner's 3♥.
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 08:15

View Posthelene_t, on 2012-June-29, 07:46, said:

I wonder this is a good situation to cue-bid a king. If p has a small doubleton the suit may not be controlled and if he has a singleton the king is nearly worthless. On the other hand, what else can we do to show a mild slam try in hearts?


Taking it one step further, I am not even sure she showed a control in Diamonds at all. It seems 4D was, infact the only way to show mild slam interest in hearts as you say...a Bluhmer which accidentally has a control.
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#6 User is offline   Yu18772 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 10:21

I was the partner, and was absolutely sure that 4♦ is a slam try in hearts and sets trump, however Elianna said she was not sure that 4NT now would be RKCB.
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#7 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 10:29

View PostYu18772, on 2012-June-29, 10:21, said:

I was the partner, and was absolutely sure that 4♦ is a slam try in hearts and sets trump, however Elianna said she was not sure that 4NT now would be RKCB.
Posted Image Yu

I assume you mean 4NT by you, instead of 4H. She can't bid 4NT over your 4H with her hand, because she passed the crown to you with the 4D bid and you declined.
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#8 User is offline   Yu18772 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 10:44

4NT by either side (I deliberately dont discuss the hand evaluation) - at the table I was sure 100% that 4♦ was suit setting slam try in hearts, while Elianna said she was not sure, thus was not sure if 4NT would be RKCB.
Posted ImageYu
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"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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#9 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 10:44

Auction looks good. What's the other hand?
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#10 User is offline   Yu18772 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 10:51

The other hand was (I dont remember exactly and didnt find a way to see hands from bidding tables) something like this:
Kxxx, KJxxxx(x), xx(x), A. (I definitely remember a broken 6 or 7 card heart suit, single A♣ and not so pretty ♠)
May be Elianna has the real hand and I am mixing something up though.
Posted ImageYu
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"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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#11 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 10:53

I would underline a concept here.

4♦ was a call that clearly was not calculated to assist in seeking a grand and was not particularly descriptive other than generally quantitative. For that reason, passing 4♥ is warranted by another concern. Even if you can scrounge up a reason for believing that slam might be still making somehow, you might not end up with a slam bonus for bidding the slam, as the risk of UI is huge here. When you make what is essentially a LTTC bid, any further call after that should be based upon a hand with CLEAR continuing slam interest, IMO, as a matter of insurance for yourself and your reputation. Even if the theory merits LTTC...bid again, the practical side of the Rules argues against that sequence ever occurring.

If you contemplate LTTC...bid as possible, I would suggest very strictly defining that sequence and even including this within the definition of the LTTC bid. "What's 4♦?" "That either is a slam bump of the start of a two-bid sequence showing a diamond control and ______________."
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#12 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 17:36

View PostYu18772, on 2012-June-29, 10:51, said:

The other hand was (I dont remember exactly and didnt find a way to see hands from bidding tables) something like this:
Kxxx, KJxxxx(x), xx(x), A. (I definitely remember a broken 6 or 7 card heart suit, single A♣ and not so pretty ♠)
May be Elianna has the real hand and I am mixing something up though.
Posted ImageYu

Now we see the reason for your other post here [ 2Hts or 2Sps ] asking :
Does the 2S rebid show extras ?
1H - 2C! ( 2/1 GF )
2S

I play that it does, whereas with this minimum Opener it would go:
1H - 2C!
2H! ( any minimum ) - 2S! ( asks clarification )
3H! ( 4s/6+h ) - 4H
pass

The other reply options are in the link you posted ( post # 8 )in the other thread:
http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry571082
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#13 User is offline   Yu18772 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 18:12

View PostTWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-June-29, 17:36, said:

Now we see the reason for your other post here [ 2Hts or 2Sps ] asking :
Does the 2S rebid show extras ?


Elianna says in the OP that its not....we were trying to see how it goes if we try the approach Justin advocated in the post you linked to. This bidding session definitely led to more questions than answers (I posted a more general plea for help here: http://www.bridgebas...showing-extras/)....

Posted ImageYu
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"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
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#14 User is offline   Elianna 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 20:13

View PostYu18772, on 2012-June-29, 10:51, said:

The other hand was (I dont remember exactly and didnt find a way to see hands from bidding tables) something like this:
Kxxx, KJxxxx(x), xx(x), A. (I definitely remember a broken 6 or 7 card heart suit, single A♣ and not so pretty ♠)
May be Elianna has the real hand and I am mixing something up though.


I don't remember either because we were just bidding, and didn't actually play the hand.

I do seem to remember that we had thought that 6 would make.

I know that I initially didn't post your hand because I didn't want to hear about where we should be, but what I should have done.
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#15 User is offline   Yu18772 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 20:22

View PostElianna, on 2012-June-30, 20:13, said:

I don't remember either because we were just bidding, and didn't actually play the hand.

I do seem to remember that we had thought that 6 would make.

I know that I initially didn't post your hand because I didn't want to hear about where we should be, but what I should have done.


Wasn't that the hand where we said that it would be ok on non !d lead? :)
I think we mostly disagreed on if 4♦ set hearts as trumps or not. I specifically answered that I do not discuss hand evaluation here, because I know this was not your purpose.
Posted ImageYu
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"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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#16 User is offline   Statto 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 22:48

I might have bid 3♦ rather than 3♣. Now I'm surely worth another try so would bid 4♠.
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#17 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2012-July-02, 02:53

We've bid fairly strongly, and partner hasn't really encouraged us at any point. I'd pass and expect to chalk up +650 without too much bother. If slam makes, I don't expect it to be cold.
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#18 User is offline   keylime 

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Posted 2012-July-02, 19:17

With an unknown quantity over there, I'm taking the sure plus. Unless hearts are evil and another side suit poorly split, I rather take a sure +620/650 then trot out 4NT (for me, to play, quant. invite to 6 - I have no clue exactly what trumps are here) and then have to suppress the "Oops!" thereafter.
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#19 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-July-03, 09:55

I think it's safe to assume 4D sets hearts (what else would that be?) so now it's time to pass imo.
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