[32519]

Round 16: Board 11 Israel versus Ukraine

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East’s bid of 4♠ and then the final contract of 6♣ turned a certain positive score into a negative one when 6♣ went down 2.

When and how must responder know when to try for slam over Non-Leaping Michaels? How should the auction have continued after 4♣? Or was East's slam try unreasonable?

[JLOGIC]

Sometimes preempts work. Even not playing non leaping michaels, you must guess over 3S 4H p. My (well documented on the forum) default action is always to give partner a lot of leeway when he bids over their preempt, and I would just bid 4H (or pass a 4H overcall) with the east hand, but I might catch partner with a hand that makes slam very easily. Having no doubleton in partners suit is a liability (it is not a double fit asset), and having so many values in spades is not good, combined with partner being under pressure to act. 4S seems like bad judgement to me though it could work.

[JLOGIC]

I guess in this specific NLM spot you could play system pretty easily, 4D slam try in hearts, 4S/4N club slam tries (4S confirming a S control, 4N denying one). With long diamonds you just have to bid 5D. Maybe this is standard to experienced NLM players, I have never played it.

[han]

I thought 4D slam try for hearts was standard, I can only guess about the agreements of EW.

[paulg]

We discussed this hand quite a lot on the voice commentary where Buras, for Poland, was West. He also overcalled four clubs and his partner, we thought very reasonably, forced to the club slam.

Our real interest was West's action over three spades: Pass, double, four hearts or four clubs (NLM, if available). And, if you pass, your action over partner's three notrump bid in the balancing seat. We thought it was quite a problem hand and I was going to do a poll, but probably not relevant now the hands are known.

[32519]

 han, on 2012-June-19, 06:11, said:

I thought 4D slam try for hearts was standard, I can only guess about the agreements of EW.

How does the auction change when South opens 3♥ and West's ♥ and ♣ suits are reversed (now 5X♠ and 5X♦)?

[antonylee]

 JLOGIC, on 2012-June-19, 04:46, said:

Having no doubleton in partners suit is a liability (it is not a double fit asset)

I'd interested in an explanation of why it is not an asset.

[the hog]

I don't think the hand is good enough for NLM anyway. Well maybe just barely. I suppose it does give you a way to show both your suits.

[32519]

 JLOGIC, on 2012-June-19, 04:46, said:

Sometimes preempts work. Even not playing non leaping michaels, you must guess over 3S 4H p. My (well documented on the forum) default action is always to give partner a lot of leeway when he bids over their preempt, and I would just bid 4H (or pass a 4H overcall) with the east hand, but I might catch partner with a hand that makes slam very easily. Having no doubleton in partners suit is a liability (it is not a double fit asset), and having so many values in spades is not good, combined with partner being under pressure to act. 4S seems like bad judgement to me though it could work.

I like this analysis of yours. East has too many cards and HCP in the ♠ suit to realistically try for the slam. Move the HCP or the cards (or both) into any of the other 3 suits and now the slam looks a lot more promising.

The board produced a wide range of results. According to the official Hand Records, the limit of the hand is 4♣ or 4♥.

[paulg]

There are also the board's record from Open Group B, Women and Seniors. All tell a similar tale.

[han]

 32519, on 2012-June-19, 15:29, said:

How does the auction change when South opens 3♥ and West's ♥ and ♣ suits are reversed (now 5X♠ and 5X♦)?

(3H) - 4D - 4H (slam try in spades)
4S - pass

I must have misunderstood something because this was too obvious. If you meant that the suits of west are reversed but the suits of east are not then I don't know, I don't want to think about how the auction would go when both partners have the ace of trumps.

[han]

By the way, I suspect I am not the only one who does have some experience bidding hands where both partners have the ace of trumps. This is what happens when you are on a long train ride and decide to bid some hands, but you forgot to bring cards.

[gordontd]

 han, on 2012-June-20, 02:29, said:

By the way, I suspect I am not the only one who does have some experience bidding hands where both partners have the ace of trumps. This is what happens when you are on a long train ride and decide to bid some hands, but you forgot to bring cards.

I sometimes fill in a low-stakes rubber bridge game, and one day was partnering someone with incipient Alzheimer's. On the first hand of the afternoon we had an auction in which my partner made an unexpected leap to 6♣ which was promptly doubled. He won the opening lead and went into a trance. Then he confidently led to dummy's ♣A, led back to his own ♣A and went into another trance, shaking his head at the impossibility of making his contract. Finally I could stand it no more, and in spite of being dummy I drew attention to the defective pack that no-one else seemed to have noticed. We cancelled the board and found a replacement pack of cards. "That was a stroke of luck", said my partner. "There was no way I could have made that"!

[han]

[FrancesHinden]

 JLOGIC, on 2012-June-19, 04:46, said:

Having no doubleton in partners suit is a liability (it is not a double fit asset).

 antonylee, on 2012-June-19, 18:45, said:

I'd interested in an explanation of why it is not an asset.

If you have, say, AKQ in partner's suit that's a good thing. But just having length in partner's second suit is not always good if it generates more losers.
The point is that, say, Jx is a better holding than Jxx opposite something like AKxxx if you have enough trumps.

You'd rather be in 6C with
xx
Kx
xxx
Jxxx

opposite
x
AJxxxx
A
AKQxx

than if the weak hand had Kxx in hearts.

[lowerline]

 JLOGIC, on 2012-June-19, 04:51, said:

I guess in this specific NLM spot you could play system pretty easily, 4D slam try in hearts, 4S/4N club slam tries (4S confirming a S control, 4N denying one). With long diamonds you just have to bid 5D. Maybe this is standard to experienced NLM players, I have never played it.

Or
4♦ mild slamtry in either suit
--4♥ no interest in ♥
----4♠/nt mild slamtry in ♣
----5♣ sign off
--4♠ interest in ♥
----4nt RKB for ♥
----5♣ mild slamtry in ♣
4♠ good slamtry in ♣
4nt good slamtry in ♥


Then East makes a mild slamtry with 4♦ and passes Norths 4♥

Steven