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ruff with strong trumps or with weak ones?

#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-June-21, 03:16

AJ109
Ax
AKxxx
Ax

Q7432
Jx
10
K1098x

Playing against Sementa (LHO) and Duboin (RHO), you open a light 2 muidenberg that lands you in the spade slam.

they lead a heart, and you have to plan your play, I played this very badly cashing AAK without even thinking twice, they both play low high in diamonds (udca), RHO playing Q on second round, you can take it from there if you want.
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#2 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-June-21, 06:46

Once both follow to the diamond AK I'd cash the spade ace. If both follow small I'd ruff clubs in dummy. This seems about 100% as long as the AK of clubs survive. If clubs split 5-1 we still have chances if they can't ruff low.

If you don't cash the spade ace before ruffing clubs you will be down if RHO has the singleton king of trumps, 2 clubs and 5 diamonds.

Going after diamonds seems worse, we'd have to ruff 3 times in hand if diamonds split, 4 times if they don't. If RHO has 5 diamonds then we are immediately down, while if LHO has 5 diamonds we have serious communication issues.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#3 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2012-June-21, 07:07

View PostFluffy, on 2012-June-21, 03:16, said:

AJ109
Ax
AKxxx
Ax

Q7432
Jx
10
K1098x

Playing against Sementa (LHO) and Duboin (RHO), you open a light 2 muidenberg that lands you in the spade slam.

they lead a heart, and you have to plan your play, I played this very badly cashing AAK without even thinking twice, they both play low high in diamonds (udca), RHO playing Q on second round, you can take it from there if you want.


This is very complex due to the many options you have.
My instinct is to go after the clubs. West is unlikely to hold a singleton club for his lead.
At trick 4 continue with the ace of trumps ( I would have played that card at trick 2)
If both are following, ace of club, club to the king. If East has a singleton club you will need him to have either a singleton trump or Kx in trumps.
If both follow in clubs you are almost there.
club ruff and if clubs are 4-2, heart ruff, club ruff, trump.
If East over-ruffs the club and returns a diamond, ruff with the queen, ruff a club and trump.
If at trick 4 trumps turn out to be 4-0 you are still in the game:
If West has all the trumps, hope that West has 3 clubs.
ace of clubs, club to the king, club ruff, heart ruff and feed him clubs to ruff. West is helpless. If he ruffs low,over-ruff and continue trumps.
If East has all the trumps you need East to hold 2 clubs and little else
club ace, club king and now cross ruff the minors. East is helpless.

In short I go down if somebody holds a singleton or void in clubs and Kxx in trumps and against some 4-0 trump breaks.

Rainer Herrmann
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#4 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-June-21, 07:24

View Posthan, on 2012-June-21, 06:46, said:

Going after diamonds seems worse, we'd have to ruff 3 times in hand if diamonds split, 4 times if they don't. If RHO has 5 diamonds then we are immediately down, while if LHO has 5 diamonds we have serious communication issues.

I think you miscounted, there are only 3 diamonds missing after we cash the AK (taking Fluffy's premise of taking it from there).

If diamonds are 4-3 you're pretty much bombproof going after diamonds as long as K stands up and trumps aren't 4-0. If LHO has 5 diamonds and RHO has 4 clubs you're also OK unless trumps are 4-0. If RHO has 5 diamonds, better hope he has 8 or LHO has K8(x) and the clubs behave

Going after clubs after cashing A seems better as if clubs are 4-2 or better (which is required unless the K is onside if you go after diamonds), you're in great shape and I don't see how you go off. You also have chances if clubs are 5-1 but the second club can't be ruffed low, so overall I think the chances are better.
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#5 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-June-21, 07:34

Could well be that I miscounted, or perhaps you forgot that we also have to ruff a heart?

Hey, rhm seems to have duplicated my line and reasoning, I feel pretty good about that!
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-June-21, 13:25

View Posthan, on 2012-June-21, 07:34, said:

Could well be that I miscounted, or perhaps you forgot that we also have to ruff a heart?


Nope, I was thinking ruff a diamond with the 7 and play a spade to the 9 as my line if pursuing diamonds. Say a trump is returned, win in dummy, ruff a heart, 2 top clubs finishing in the short hand, ruff a diamond high, ruff a club and claim.
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