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4504 reverse?

#21 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-June-20, 13:52

majors first then nt and (a distant third ) minors

1h normal
1n we assume normal
2s no major suit fit this hand so we search for NT- we have 3 problem suits
for nt purposes lets start by showing stuff in spades and our extra values.
Another consideration is that slam will be unlikely if p has stuff in dia we need
to find out what p has.


IF p bids

2n we bid 3c to pattern out and show our obvious dia problem. If p cannot bid
3n we can probably safely play 5c or even 6c. p may even pass

3c p has a dia problem and so do we i suggest we bid 4d to show our pattern and
slam interest and let p decide where to go from there. If I were just a bit weaker or had
jacks vs queens I would bid 5c to show this hand but lack of slam interest.

3d p has a club problem and while they may have long dia it is better to bid 3n
rather than risk passing what may be just dia stuff for NT purposes. P can then bid
4d if all they have are long weak dia it is worth the extra level.

3h pretty good chance p is 3234 and no dia stop and has raised with Hx. Pattern out
with 4c and let p decide which suit to play in.

3s p has problems with both minors and has less than Hx in hearts maybe something
like AJx xx xxxx Jxxx p will almost always be very minimum for this bidding and I would
bid 4c which will allow p to pass with a complete minimum or bid 5c 4h or 4s.

3n pass slam very unlikely and while 5c may be safer many times there is no guarantee
we have a fit anywhere.
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#22 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-June-20, 15:04

So, all the guys who reverse into 2 Spade:

Do you believe that a partnership who does not know that there are other club raises avaiable besides 3 will know whether
1 1 NT 2 2 NT is lebensohl or natural?

Will they know that
1 1 NT 2 2 NT 3 shows 4504 and not 4513? I had played partner for 4513, if 3 club shows 4504- like mike and others said- how do you show 4513?
If you reverse, they will more or less surely never play in clubs if partner holds less then 5.... Whether this is good or bad is open to discussion...

Surely ou must look for the majors first, then NT then minors. But if partner has no good diamond honours, and a shape like 3244 or 31(45)- is 4 Spade really the place to be with the long trump hand being shortend at trick one?
Kind Regards

Roland


Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
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#23 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2012-June-20, 15:10

View PostCodo, on 2012-June-20, 15:04, said:

So, all the guys who reverse into 2 Spade:

Do you believe that a partnership who does not know that there are other club raises avaiable besides 3 will know whether
1 1 NT 2 2 NT is lebensohl or natural?

Will they know that
1 1 NT 2 2 NT 3 shows 4504 and not 4513? I had played partner for 4513, if 3 club shows 4504- like mike and others said- how do you show 4513?
If you reverse, they will more or less surely never play in clubs if partner holds less then 5.... Whether this is good or bad is open to discussion...

Surely ou must look for the majors first, then NT then minors. But if partner has no good diamond honours, and a shape like 3244 or 31(45)- is 4 Spade really the place to be with the long trump hand being shortend at trick one?



I cant show/promise 4=5=1=3 after 2nt(art/weakish). 3c promises 5=4=0=4 and is forcing. If I choose to rebid 2s over 1nt then I need to be prepared to respond to a 2nt(art/weakish) by pard.

so I need to make a decision do I rebid 2c or 2s over 1nt. My options would be pass(a supposed forcing but weakish bid), bid 3c, bid 3h or bid 3nt.

To make this decision even more complicated if pard is an unpassed hand 1nt can be quite a wide range here.

Pard knows with 4=5=2=2 or 4513 I may rebid 2c here so he should not go crazy with long clubs.

If with 4-5-1=3 and I rebid 2c then pard can bid 2s to show strong cl raise or 3c to show weakish raise, the danger would be if pard passes me in 2c but with a really weak hand and clubs that should be ok.
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#24 User is offline   mikl_plkcc 

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Posted 2012-June-22, 09:55

I would have reversed, since 2 is non-forcing.
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