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Matchpointitis Why even have minor suit bids in the box?

#1 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2012-June-13, 22:54

MP, all vul. LHO passes and partner opens 1 (3+). RHO bids 2 (weak). You're looking at 864 KQ74 AKT653 -
Your bid?
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#2 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2012-June-13, 23:49

I'll pass in tempo and hope for a X.
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#3 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2012-June-14, 00:04

Don't think my are enough to defend 2 profitably. The apparent misfit is a bit concerning, but game should be ok if partner stops {spades]s. So I will bid 3 and then 3N over partner's expected 3 rebid. I hope partner is something like 4=1=3=5 or better in . AKxx,x,Qxx, AKxxx should produce a small slam. I expect partner to make a move with this prime hand.
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#4 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-June-14, 00:40

3 wtp?
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#5 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-June-14, 02:13

Pass!
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#6 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-June-14, 03:20

pass wtp?
I try 3 NT over 3 club from partner, this would be the only sequence where I would feal scary.
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#7 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-June-14, 03:25

I'd bid 3D and consider it clear, seems like there is a resonable chance of 2H getting passed out when partner has a doubleton heart, and if he has a singleton heart it seems like a crap shoot that 2H X will be better than NT, obv depends how many diamonds partner has and how strong his clubs are.

I guess if you expect partner to reopen very often with a doubleton heart all vul then pass is percentage but I don't know why this should be the case.
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#8 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2012-June-14, 04:10

3D. 6D may well have play, and 3 nt looks likely. Defending 2H X is not a guaranteed 800, and for the reasons Justin gave, the double may not be forthcoming.
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#9 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2012-June-14, 18:07

Void in clubs is probably a sign to defend but am afraid the auction might get passed out, and I can't resist not showing my six good diamonds.
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#10 User is offline   lalldonn 

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Posted 2012-June-14, 18:14

Definitely bid 3
"What's the big rebid problem? After 1♦ - 1♠, I can rebid 1NT, 2♠, or 2♦."
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#11 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2012-June-14, 23:05

The reason I ruled out passing is that I didn't think this would be such a huge set. We have at least 600 in 3NT and defending 2 I need to find partner with an entry to get my club ruff, and that still only gives me two trump tricks, two diamonds and a club ruff. So yes, partner will have something in his hand, but I didn't think it likely to take it three down. Is that reasonable?
At the table I went with 3 (though I disagree it's "wtp"), partner gave the expected 3 and we ended up in the same 3NT as everyone else :)
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#12 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-June-15, 10:26

We definitely don't have "at least 600 in 3N", just like we don't have at least 800 in 2H.
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#13 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2012-June-15, 13:54

Hmm, not easy. A direct 3NT may give partner the impression that I have club tolerance, while 3 may push us past 3NT when we want to play there. On some hands partner will bid 3 to clarify this, but not on others. My worst fear is a 4 rebid, not sure what to do in that case.

I guess I don't have an easy answer, at the table I would probably just bash 3NT.
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#14 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2012-June-16, 00:00

Part of the reason I didn't want to bid 3NT outright was that I have nothing to protect - my HCP are AK KQ and the A is very likely to be on the right. Partner knows we're playing matchpoints, so he'll take care not to go past 3NT if at all possible.

Justin, I don't follow. Isn't it extremely likely that 3NT makes? the worst case I could think of is partner having short diamonds and no honor, but is that likely? Why wouldn't 3NT make?
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#15 User is offline   Nabooba 

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Posted 2012-June-16, 03:51

At this vulnerability I would certainly pass.
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#16 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2012-June-16, 13:46

If pard has a fit, slam is not out of the question opposite say, Axx, x, Qxxx, AKxxx and a 3 bid doesn't rule out 3nt.

Plus 8 or even 1100 may not be enough and plus 500 (it's all we are getting here) sucks.
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#17 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-June-16, 20:02

View PostAntrax, on 2012-June-16, 00:00, said:

Part of the reason I didn't want to bid 3NT outright was that I have nothing to protect - my HCP are AK KQ and the A is very likely to be on the right. Partner knows we're playing matchpoints, so he'll take care not to go past 3NT if at all possible.

Justin, I don't follow. Isn't it extremely likely that 3NT makes? the worst case I could think of is partner having short diamonds and no honor, but is that likely? Why wouldn't 3NT make?


If diamonds don't come in, your heart entry gets killed immediately. I don't know how likely it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if you went down 10 % of the time at least in 3N. Just saying it's not a lock make, I think in general overestimate their chances in hands like this of how likely their game is to make. Especially if partner has long clubs which seems likely, he might have even opened light. If partner has 2 diamonds, they will break badly quite often given the heart break. And having a club void is very bad for offense obviously. Even if diamonds come in for 1 loser, we might go down given our likely transportation issues.
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